---
title: Episode 124 Evolution Of Daygame
episode_number: 124
era: mid
source_file: Episode 124 Evolution Of Daygame.mp3
audio_size_mb: 64.6
duration_sec: 2117.0
duration_min: 35.3
language: en
provider: deepgram
model: nova-3
diarized: true
confidence: 0.998
transcribed_at: 2026-05-27T16:56:58Z---

# Episode 124 Evolution Of Daygame

**Speaker 0:** Tom Torero podcast, a 124. Hello from mother Russia where autumn has rapidly become winter. I'm here for about a month doing the first cut of the daygame documentary, pretty much in isolation with just daygame and dating and birds as relief. So it's not all bad, but it's bloody cold already. I haven't got my gloves, I haven't got my hat. So extreme daygame will commence. I've just returned from London. I was there just for a few days doing the final documentary shots, the final interview. Cheers to Turkish who was interviewed and filmed infield for that and cheers to Erdem for stepping in as a cameraman. Cheers to my mate Tim who came up. It was nice to see him before he goes off to China and cheers to those thirty, forty blokes, daygame delinquents, I call them, who turned up at the Royal Festival Hall. We were told off because there were so many of us and it was bloody good, know, solid men, men actually going out, they were not keyboard jocks, the majority. And five, ten years ago, a pickup meetup really was a rag bag of eclectic eccentric online forum characters, myself included. But I looked around that foyer and I had taught a lot of those guys, knew of a lot of those guys, I'd seen a lot of those guys out in field taking action, changing themselves. They were solid bloody blokes. It was an army. So fantastic. Thank you if you came along to that. Right. We've got to dive in because it's a big one today. That's what she said. It's on the evolution of daygame. How daygame has changed since 02/1967 up until now. How the model shifted, how the model came about, the motley crew of characters involved in that. Perhaps you've read the blog post on my website as homework. I mentioned it last week on tomterra.com. Please read along today because I will be skimming it, I will be paraphrasing it, I will be referring to a key table, a key graphic that I made which is in that post. So once again, I shall link it below on YouTube and on iTunes. First of all, I'm just going to read most of the post or the relevant bits for this podcast and the post starts like this. Guys have been approaching girls during the day in towns and cities across the world for thousands of years. Biology is biology. If she's hot, a guy somewhere will strike up a conversation to try and take things further. Most approaches in history would have been indirect and situational if he doesn't already know her through social circles. Many would have had to have secrecy and discretion. So there's nothing new about quote unquote daygame. But it's only in the last twelve years or so that the process has been named, defined, formalized, and structured. Thanks to the internet, guys across the world have compared notes and pushed the envelope. Things have moved rapidly in the last decade and the model for daygame has seen a huge evolution. In the podcast today, I'm gonna be discussing the history and developments of daygame. But in this blog post that I'm reading now, I wanted to give an overview so that you can ask relevant questions, which guys did. I answered most of them and we're going to go through them today. I've been aware of the pickup community since 2005 when Neil Strauss published The Game. I started daygaming infield in late two thousand and nine. Although I should say I dabbled in around 2007 but it was indirect and I've been doing it intensively since then all over the world. I started teaching daygaming in late twenty ten and publishing material on it every year since then. In that time, I've seen a real change to the style and methodology of the art form. Some of it instigated by my own change in day game form and technique. Like in any evolution of a sport from surfing to video games, there are distinct time periods where certain trends and techniques dominate. I divide up the development of day game into three periods, one point zero, two point zero and three point zero. And then I go through this all important table which clarifies confusion. So, if you're listening to this, if I'm coming in your ears, get on your phone, get on your laptop and find this linked post to get this graphic. And, it's colored blue, purple and red, the columns, the three columns for a reason. So daygame one point zero. I say this is from the early two thousands to late two thousand and nine ish and, I comment, this was the beginning of pickup advice being shared and tested thanks to the internet and early seduction forums. So it's no coincidence that daygame evolved with the evolution of the internet. Most of the information was about night game in bars and clubs stemming from Mystery Method. But some guys like Ross Jeffries, David D'Angelo, Juggler, David Weigand and Vince Kelvin were encouraging men to talk to girls during the day. The advice felt like an attempt to shoehorn night game routines and methodology into the day. It was very indirect, very friendly and very protracted. Looking back on it, you'd say it was pretty blue pill in that encouragement to find a dream girlfriend or, you know, get any girl, through extended dating and elaborate material. But as I say in the post, we mustn't knock it because every discipline needs to start somewhere. And if it wasn't for the original pioneers like the guys mentioned, including Strauss who kind of documented it, perhaps even though he wasn't a, ever you could say a great pickup artist, then very few of us would be doing daygame as we know it today. So in that column on day game one point zero zero, which is colored blue, I say it was indirect and that you asked for directions or a female opinion. It was friendly. It was rapport based. It was a big performance in what people wore and in how people acted. Because there was no structured model, it was about getting lucky unless you understood Mystery Method. It was routine based. It was looking for a social hook point because it was all about inviting girls out to parties or, events or pretending to be a photographer or whatever. So it was friendly as I've said, heavy verbals because of these heavy routines, non physical during the day, hiding your intent, even when you're inviting her out, kind of snake seduction, keeping a social distance between you and the girl, so one to two meters apart, lots of instant dating because seduction took at least seven hours, three or four dates at least, multiple date venues, complex date plans and, lots of long game because you'd have to work your magic over, Facebook or email in those days. So it was protracted. But as I said, we mustn't knock it because that's the foundation. And if you've read Mystery Method, you've heard me bark on about mystery and Chris Odom, I think he was the co author of The Mystery Method. They were the first guys who really linked evolutionary theory to dating dynamics. So you have to give them a lot of credit and loads of the terminology and things we use today, even in in the latest daygame model, if you like, stems from Mystery Method. Just pick it up and read it. People caricature and make fun of it but I bet they've never read it. Okay. I'm not saying you have to do Mystery Method but you have to understand the principles that they're talking about and how they're integrated into today's model. Okay. Then Daygame two point zero which I marked from February to around 2013. Remember, these are not static phases. They blur into each other, but I'm just trying to get some clarity. So I color that column purple for a reason because it's kind of purple pill ish, if you've heard me talk about that. And I say, by the end of the February, things were changing. Night game was moving away from structured mystery method, although with the fundamentals And daygame was becoming its own thing. Around this time, an Australian called Alex Coulson, who I recently met in Sydney, a very cool bloke, released an infield product called street dating revealed, which showed him flirting during the day with some basic direct approaches included. In New York City, at the same time, a suave guy called Paul Janker was also releasing infields. Again, mix of indirect but also some smoother direct ones. A British seducer called Sasha, who was the original wing of Mystery, was hitting the streets and chatting up girls directly but in a kind of entertainer comic mode. Down in London, a guy called Andy Yosher had teamed up with a London PUA called Yad and together they began formulating a daytime version ish of the Mystery Method which they termed the daygame blueprint. This was a direct or you could say soft direct version of daygame but what today we might turn purple pill in that it was still seducing in boyfriend mode. I started teaching with them, freelance but with them in 2011 and releasing my own programs in this kind of day game style. So I did Conversation King in 2011, Date Against the Machine with John Matrix, 2012, Girlfriend Sequence, which was my dating model, 2013. I published my first book on daygame with most of what's in street hustle in there in an early form in 2012 along with a 100 lay reports. And a lot of those techniques, as I say in the footnote, they came from being in field and conversations with and creating models with my original wing who remains anonymous, he was called Anthony from 2011. He's anonymous because of his high profile career. But loads of the models and techniques and terminology that comes from him. Right. Let's carry on. I was teaching the live programs at first with Andy and Yad and then with a talented daygamer called John Matrix. Together, John and I taught hundreds of boot camps, all across the world and we refined this blueprint model because the blueprint was just kind of hypothetical based on a couple of guys. But we were testing it week in week out across the world from America to Scandinavia to Australia, all over Europe. We were teaching this model and watching how guys responded to it and executed it. So it's like taking a scientific hypothesis and bashing it out, testing it under loads of different conditions and seeing the results. Some things we left in, some things we scrapped, some things we realized were fuzzy and unnecessary, other things we had to clarify. So that was really work in the model like kneading the dough. Yeah. And then letting it rise. And I say in that paragraph, at the same time, an excellent London daygamer and writer called Nick Krauser was developing and refining his own version of the model, the daygame blueprint through dedicated time in field himself. His theory books, daygame nitro and then daygame mastery captured this evolution eloquently. And I've said many times, Nick and I are different characters but I have big respect for a, his theorizing his brain, the way he can vocalize social dynamics like Tyler Durden, intense but very clear. And b, like Tyler, sharp infield experience. I've, lived with Nick and traveled with Nick and seen him infield. As I say in the next paragraph, by 2013 I was traveling with John and then Nick. The model was shifting from this kind of purple soft direct version based on attraction and slower dating to something a lot more stripped down and potent. Because if you do the two point zero stuff again and again and again and you teach it again and again and again, you realize that you can cut the fat, you get rid of the excess and just for fun you push boundaries anyway. Yeah, like in any sport. That's what I say, we were all pushing things to the limit with same day lays and competition was good for this. You have fast escalation and a non verbal form of daygame in lover rather than boyfriend, certainly not provider mode. So in that column which is purple, I say kind of soft direct, friendly direct, loads of attraction. So that's where my how to flirt with girls spiking verbal attraction stuff comes from. Very vibe dependent in that, we had to and students had to do massive state shifting or warming up. High volume of approaching. So beginners still need to do that. Getting a hundred, two hundred, 300 under your belt to get rid of AA and to get that right calibrated vibe. A lot of lines, even though we were moving away from routines, it was still a lot of lines, which beginners still need today as stabilizers. It was a boyfriend mode in that it was a little bit sexual but we were still getting the social hook point and then going on one date, two date, three date, three dates to get delayed. Verbal, as I said, with a bit of non verbal, perhaps light touches in set, a bit of intent, the romantic distance between you and the girl, so around a meter. Some instant dates still for a bit more rapport and grounding. As I said, two or three date model which is girlfriend sequence, it's even in my first book daygame where I talk about the bubbles, different date venues, three to five hours for the pool and some long game because we were traveling to different countries, doing day game in kind of boyfriend ish mode and then having to go back to those countries. So lots of long game online. Now as I'm going to come on to, that's where most beginners still today have to start. You can't jump into the, under the radar direct stuff. You have to start with scaffolding. You have to start with the London daygame model, you have to start with the basics, you have to start with verbal, you have to start with finding the social hook point, you have to start with learning attraction. There's nothing wrong with this stuff but you'll see in a moment how even more of the fat can be cut off, how it can be stripped down even further into what becomes, what became what I do today and what people like Nick and John and other very experienced daygamers do too. So on to daygame three point zero, which I say was from around 2013 when I was traveling the world with John and Nick and other wings to today, daygame three point zero. I say by 2013, the London daygame model had been refined by John, Nick and I into what people recognize today. It was and still is a great framework model for getting beginners started with direct cold approaching during the day. But even though we were still teaching it, we realized that our own form of daygame was shifting into something else. Day game three point zero isn't based on an alter ego, a performance or a script. It isn't focused on attraction and getting her to be your girlfriend. Instead, it's fully secret society. I hope you know what that is now from all my below the belt posts and my podcast on secret society. Taking three point zero, it's all about arousal in lover mode. Non verbal is prioritized with touching starting early on the street and fast lays are preferred, lack of long game. Things are congruent and internalized after years of approaching. It's like a freestyle surfer riding the big waves after thousands of hours of working his way up. There's a sixth sense as intuition and flow replace structure. And this is why I'm bashing on about pre approach calibration, a bit of lazy game with IOIs and AIs. When you can spot patterns, when you've been doing it for years and you can do this stuff on autopilot. You would say that this form of daygame is properly quote unquote red pill in that it is a distillation and manifestation of the truths of human evolutionary biology applied practically in field. It's under the radar, feral, and efficient with all the excess fat trimmed off. And I finished the post by saying a guy who's new to daygame still has to start with daygame two point zero concepts much like a new guitarist has to start with basic chords and scales. But in the last few years, people like Nick, myself and now a whole host of competent daygamers around the world have left the model behind for something a lot more freeing and spontaneous. Where will it go from here? As with any sport, I think the fundamentals established in the first decade will remain but it will become more specialized. For example, gutter game and perhaps more or I should say even more competitive. Okay. Let's just look at that last column, daygame three point zero, which I color red. So I say it's direct. That's why I always bash on about not hiding your dick. It's arousal based. That's what we're after, not really just the laughing, flicking hair attraction stuff. It's vibe independent because you can do it when you're ill. You're sleepy. You don't need massive amounts of warming up. There's pre approach calibration as I've just spoken about and I made a video about. That's my latest YouTube video called daygame intel. You freestyle, I'm not thinking about attraction, comfort and selection. As I said, even in Badass Buddha, we are on the polyphonic model where we weave together attraction, comfort and seduction into cords. I don't think, do I need to spike? Do I need to add in rapport? Do I need to, up the seduction? That's just guilt dependent, situation dependent based on calibration. So I'm freestyling. I'm looking for the sexual hook point. I'm not really interested in the social hook point. I'm doing it in lover mode certainly because I'm traveling fast and I don't wanna do long game. She needs to know what I want in secret society mode. So heavy non verbals, I know that you know that I know or you know that I know that you know. Physicality, as I said, is prioritized. So pretty shtum in the venue, but hand holding, tiger eyes, touching on the street, full intent. We shall come on to that in a minute because that's confusing a lot of guys. A sexual distance, closing the distance, less than one meter even on the street. Don't do instant dates because I'm not interested in rapport and deep rapport. Only do instant dates if I'm going for the SDL. And I'm prioritizing plan a, what I call plan a even in girlfriend sequence, which is one date model, one venue model, less than ninety minutes for the pool. Of course, as I've said in that date diagnosis podcast and in street seduction, stealth seduction and street hustle, it doesn't always happen that you have the one date model and the one venue model, but that's what I'm going for. That's my plan a. Of course, you can shift it to the two date model, etcetera. Daygame three point zero doesn't always work out, but that's what you go in planning for. And as I said, I avoid long game. So that was the post. You need to look at that table. I hope that makes sense. And then loads and loads and loads and loads of guys asked questions. So I shall go through their questions and some of my answers now. We got ten minutes left and I got loads to say, but we shall just keep going. Let me point out a few things first, actually, I've scribbled a few things down. Some of these did come up in the questions, some of them didn't. So guys are thinking, okay, daygame three point zero is direct and a lot of the questions and emails I got were guys asking, is it gonna get more direct? Can we do super direct? Is it gonna get faster? Can we just go crazy and invite her to the house? Is this what's gonna happen? I would say no. Okay. I've made a podcast on the problem of going, super direct and fast escalation. I think it was podcast number three or four or five. Many years ago, I said why pulling pulling pulling snaps the fishing line and why seduction is implicit, not explicit, it's covert, it's not overt. So even though this is how the male brain thinks, you don't wanna fuck, you know, sending the dick picture, it's fun. It was a phase that we tried, super fast direct game in around 2011, 2012. This book Mode one came out saying, just tell women exactly what you want using your because women obviously have the male brain. It didn't work. It's a nice idea but I am talking about super direct as in intent but that still means calibrated, that still means subtle, that still means under the radar, implied with plausible deniability. This is how the chess game works. Okay? This is the the male brain versus the female brain, your agenda versus her agenda. So is it ever going to get super direct, yo bitch wanna fuck? One in 10,000. Right? You can pull that stunt but, no. The second big point, I had lots of emails, a lengthy comment about this which I scrapped because it was self promotion from natural game coaches. They were saying, hey, why didn't you mention natural game? Be yourself game. Be yourself companies. We've been doing day games since 2009, why didn't you mention us? I say, because this podcast and the article was about models and structures and testable theories. So if you're teaching guys a system, a, you have to say what the system is and b, you have to allow it to be tested. So natural gains and oxymoron, right? You first need to give me a hypothesis of what it is you're doing, not just on you, not just an outlier, not just on one type of girl in one city, but no. You say this is the structure. As we said in 2013, this is our structure. Then it has to be tested on thousands of guys or thousands of guys doing it on tens of thousands of girls across the world on girls in different cities. It has to be rigorous and then the results have to be fed back in. This is basic science, the scientific method and then you adjust your model. So the natural game stuff, I don't think it's contributed anything except you could say, you know, meditation and breathing and being present to the moment, but that's, that's all pretty basic stuff, that was taught way before, the natural game phenomenon. So I know those guys have been around but I'm not including them. The hippie new age kind of stuff. But let's go through some of these questions. The first one from Greg said, what's the criteria of pre approach calibration? And I've just made that daygame intel video which covers that. Then there were questions on Nick, I've answered those. Then a guy saying, when can he drop daygame two point zero and put in start doing daygame three point zero? When should he start doing it? And I say, how long it takes you to swallow the red pill is guy dependent. For me, it took over a 100 lays and three years of active daygame. I didn't even know about this online, manosphere thing until I think after a 100 lays or somewhere near a 100 lays. I was just out there in field. And yeah, you can get laid in boyfriend mode but I didn't really link all the pieces together then until three years in. But for other guys, as I say, it might just be 30 lays over two years. You'll know when you're daygaming in secret society mode, I say, as the seduction speed and the results you get will speak for themselves. Daniel asks, what are you most proud of in your teaching? For me he learned elephant in the room and fractionating. Cheers Daniel. I say I'm proud of clarifying and articulating the early jumble of pickup information into actionable advice after all those boot camps I taught in field. I'm proud of the universal fractionation concept, which is next week's podcast, along with clarifying spiking and coming up with elephant in the room, fourth wall stuff. So I'll go through the universal fractionation badass Buddha stuff next week. Justin, similar question from before. He says, how does one move from two point zero to three point zero? It's just about being in field. So beginners are going to start two point zero. When you work up to post intermediate advanced, you're going to be in three point zero secondret society stuff. Yeah. For most guys that's around two years in field. Anant says, what's your opinion of RSD instructors? As I've said, huge respect for Tyler, a deep understanding of the game. I'm not a fan of the self help stuff but huge respect, to Tyler for pushing, and advancing the community. I'm a big fan of Todd's technical knowledge and style. He's a poker player. He's a chess player. He thinks along the same lines as me. And I like Jeffy's zero fucks given vibe and the fact that he he says himself, you can't be half a gangster. He doesn't hide what he does. And, he certainly is a black sheep. Okay. Mick Danster says, what about the results in daygame? Did they get upgraded as well from one point zero to three point zero? How do you measure that? He's saying and I'm saying spot on. You can't say a model or a theory has advanced or been upgraded unless the results and efficiency have improved. So an advanced daygamer, I say, can be dropped in any world city and get fast sex with hotter girls and with less approaches and without promising them anything because he's doing it in lover mode. And I've made that video on expected daygame results. So you can compare yourself to that. Guilam, I think we say says, how can the version, how conversion three point zero be vibe independent? And secondly he says, how to communicate subtly with women that, you're in the secret society. I say, well advanced daygamer doesn't need to warm up. So that's why it's vibe independent. He can do it when he's tired, he can do it when he's sick. And you don't tell a girl you're in the secret society, you show her from everything, from your fashion and the way you approach her and the way you text her, to the way you date her and the way you sleep with her and the way you treat her after that. Roosh says, Aunt Janka, Paul Janka and Matrix, John Matrix examples of good looking guy game, which I've also left out of this post because again, there are coaches that are very good looking and they basically teach be me and they do get laid and they do get good results but they've never really had to learn technical game. Okay. I say, correct. Janka's game was very fast and it was just basically, hey, you're cute. You Do want a coffee? And he'd filter. So you could say Paul Janko is just good looking guy game. He was getting laid but he wasn't really able to teach it or come up with a model. But John, I spent hours with living with him, teaching with him, traveling with him and even though, yeah, he's a very good looking guy and he got far less blowouts than me, he could teach the London daygame model and he understood it and he understood the nuances of seduction and pass it on to students. That's vital for a coach. Is it true Michael says that daygame was invented by a guy called gunwitch. And are there any plans to host Matrix or Nick in future podcasts? Gunwitch was a character a bit like Mode one very early on in the seduction world, just like super direct, go up to girls, tell them what you want, fuck them or tell them to fuck off. So I like the vibe just like mode one but it's not really teachable. It's overly simplistic. It's filtering perhaps you could say for yes girls. It's the opposite of structure so I don't include that. Yet I've asked John to come on and I will along with Diggler. I'm going to try and get my original wing on Anthony, some of the original characters in the community. I'm no longer in touch with Nick, so no plans for a podcast as yet. Okay. We're skipping on because how many minutes have we got? Just a couple of minutes, but fuck it. Let's just keep going for now. Guys, just blowing smoke at my ass. We'll ignore those comments, but thank you. Good question from TC. Where does indirect direct or plausible deniability game fit in? My initial thoughts were two point zero is direct, three point zero is indirect direct. I say indirect direct is just an occasional tool where the situation presents itself, when the situation presents itself. It's problematic as beginners use it as a reason not to go direct. I've been using indirect direct in daygame two point zero and in three point zero if it seems the right thing to do. For example, on an airplane or with a waitress. But for 99 of your day game, you should be not hiding your dick. So go direct. If you're a beginner, go direct. Don't use this as an excuse to open situationally. There are certain circumstances and I've made a podcast on that. I call it the pinnacle of game because it's so smooth and under the radar. It's very hard to teach. You'll probably do it more in three point zero but if you're doing two point zero, begin a game. Don't hide your dick, go verbally direct. Okay. Why does some guys that have been in the game for a long time turn purple pills, says Bob and go on spiritual awakening journeys. I'm going to make a video on this or do a podcast on this or an article where pickup artists go to die. It's because they get married, they slip back into purple pill or even blue pill, they become game denialists, they get fed up, they get old, many reasons for that. But, it's often a sad state of affairs because not for them, but if they start diluting pickup into purple pill or teaching things that are blatantly wrong, they become idealists, dreamers, then that's dangerous for newbies because they can't see the wood for the trees. Okay. Let's keep going. A few more. A few more. Rima says, if you had to pick just one thing to help a guide from the model, what would it be? And I wrote spiking. I'd also say eye contact, improve your tiger eyes, understand that and improve your spiking. Stop chitchat. Stop rapport. Learn how to spike things up. Okay. I'll do two more. Carl says, who did you gain the most knowledge from when you were learning theory, Tom? As I've already said, I learned Mystery Method from Mystery and Chris Odom, who were the authors of the Mystery Method. A guy called John Sin was very technical like Todd, fantastic understanding of the game, super direct but also with a technical background. I loved it. And this guy, this cult figure, sixty years of challenge. He taught me a lot about frame and relationships. And we shall finish with, let's finish with a meaty one. Some cheeky guys were just asking for advice on their own game. It was meant to be a Q and A on the model. Yeah. Let's finish with skinny pea, something a bit more meta. What's your opinion on the relationship between marketing and the evolution of game? It seems that many of the pros try to differentiate themselves in order to sell a product. And I've said, yeah, sales is sales. In every industry, including the sexual marketplace, you have to differentiate and dominate the market. So I understand why natural game guys say follow us, you don't need any structure, you just be yourself. That's very attractive, because nothing needs to be changed. You just meditate in a park. I understand why different companies put their own spin on things but as I've said many times before, if you look at the core components of all mobile phones now, they run the same kind of things. They're built in the same way. They're using the same technology for the same thing. So if you look at night gamers, if you look at day gamers, if you look at even online stuff, the same principles of attraction apply. It's the same hook point. The same principles of comfort apply. The same principles certainly of seduction, verbal escalation and physical escalation and sealing the deal apply. That all goes back to evolutionary biology. So that's why I give Mystery Method so much credit because it links to evolution of desire. It understands Darwinian evolution. So sure, people put their different spin on it and you could say, okay, well, daygame one point zero to daygame three point zero, that's just a marketing strategy. I would say no because if you, go out today and you try the daygame one point zero stuff, it's going to be totally different. It's going to have different results. You're going to look totally different to a guy who's doing day game three point zero stuff and if you're not convinced by this podcast, I'm not saying you have to be. I'm a scientist, I'm saying go and test it. So go and do a week of indirect then do a week of kind of boyfriend daygame, then do a week perhaps of super direct daygame, then do a week of calibrated daygame and write down your results. Send me your results, compare them, record yourself. This is not wishy washy stuff. I hope that made sense. I know that was me speaking very quickly, trying to cover a decade or more of pickup. But thank you for the questions. I hope that table clarifies things. I'm saving my voice now. I'm gonna go and have a cup of tea, and I'm gonna go out and do some day game. Then I'm gonna come back and start editing the daygame documentary. And next week, it will be on universal fractionation. So if you remember my badass Buddha stuff, hot and cold, blue and red, off and on, all that stuff, we shall be talking about that next week. But from mother Russia, thanks for listening to the podcast. Keep grabbing life by the horns, and I will speak to you next week.