---
title: Episode 145 Who Folds First
episode_number: 145
era: late
source_file: Episode 145 Who Folds First.mp3
audio_size_mb: 56.5
duration_sec: 1851.1
duration_min: 30.9
language: en
provider: deepgram
model: nova-3
diarized: true
confidence: 0.996
transcribed_at: 2026-05-27T17:01:45Z---

# Episode 145 Who Folds First

**Speaker 0:** All I'm saying, you gotta enjoy your motherfucking life. That's all the fuck I'm saying. Enjoy your goddamn life. Life is fucking short. Enjoy

**Speaker 1:** a 145 with Thomas Torero, who folds first with my very sexy bass reverberating voice. It's the morning voice of Tom Torero coming in your ears wherever you are. I wish I sounded like this all the time. I've said this before. This is my morning after the night before voice, and I'm getting turned on by by speaking, hey, I think you look really nice. This is the result of me flying back to London for twenty four hours, which is where I am now, and sorting my Russian visa because I'm going to Russia with Baxter and Mystery to teach in May. Anyway, I had to fly back and then obviously had a few beers with Baxter, met up with Troy from the previous podcast, met up with a couple of, gamers, John and John. It was good to meet them. Had some beers, had some sausage and mash. Didn't get that drunk, but it was just a day of shenanigans in London. I'm flying back today to the sub zero temperatures of the Baltics where it's gotten down to minus 11. The coldest in the van it's been has been minus nine ish. I'll tell you more about the frozen van in a video, but what's been going on? Yeah. The the lay I got there I posted up the text game from that because it was a good example of some text game guys like seeing the full thread so that's on my blog What else has been going on? Yeah. The black sheep award. That was this week's video. Me giving 200 four times a year to four different guys, spring, summer, autumn, winter to get them out of their city going on a little day game adventure. So these guys need the money, perhaps it's late teens to mid twenties, and you leave your city on a mega bus or a greyhound or a cheap flight, you get a hostel and you go to another city to hustle. Or like the first recipient, Tom, you spend it on a piece of equipment, which will allow you more freedom. So you can read about that on the blog. And when I put the application form live online, I got over thirty thirty applicants just from that video and a guy contacted me and said hi Tom, don't want your money, I want to match your money, so four times a year, I'll also put into the kitty £200 to allow two guys four times a year if you get what I mean so that was the online entrepreneur James Holt and I link him on my blog as well so thank you to James which will allow me to pick another guy for this spring which I've already done I'm speaking to him today. So there you go. The black sheep award. If you're interested in applying, then there's a permanent page tab on the top of me blog, www.tomtorero.com. If you've just joined us, you filthy pirate as I said. Right, who falls first? The health warning with this podcast, even though we're talking about game and game analogy and making it sound like poker and conscious decision making and strategizing is that it's pretty much all unconscious or subconscious. Men do it and women do it. Okay? So that's why it's called game. It's a game. I've said before it's a dance, but this is the disclaimer because this is where guys get angry. The moment you start talking about female strategy, guys get very angry because they say, it's a conscious manipulation, it's game playing, she's a bitch. Yes. Sometimes it happens. Girls are hyper aware of what they're doing and they do it on you. But largely, like your digestive system, it's a hardwired process. Okay? Like your sleep patterns and your digestive system. You're not really aware of it, why you crave a certain food or you get thirsty at a certain time. Right? That's your body running on autopilot. Same with you playing the game, right? Why you get turned on by boobies and ass and hot girls that are younger than you. Same with girls, how they get turned on, what turns them on, which we shall talk about today. They're largely unaware of and even though they consciously might think one thing, know, I want a nice, sweet, reliable, kind guy, they're turned on many a time, as you know from reading the evolutionary biology books that I keep telling you to read, they get turned on by something entirely different. So who folds first is the the standoff. Again, minute I say that word, guys bristle. Fucking game playing bitches. No. It's it's the chess game. It's the poker game between your strategy and her strategy. Okay? Who folds first? If you're new to pickup daygame and dating and evolutionary biology, let us backpedal just a little bit and explain it in sixty seconds. So in biology, women hold the sex card. Okay? It's in their domain. At any point on the daygame, in the daygame interaction or on the date, if she just said, you know what, should we just go back and fuck? You'd go, okay. So that's, the card that she's playing. Okay. Would you like to have sex with me? That's what she's holding. Men hold the investment slash commitment card. Okay? So at any point when you're, you know, nailing a fuck buddy, if you just said to it, you know what, let's become boyfriend and girlfriend, let's make this more serious, why don't you move in? The majority of girls subconsciously, unconsciously would would jump for joy, they'd be delighted, that's what they're looking for. Okay, male commitment. Now of course there's the lovers and the providers, so at some point in her cycle and at some point in her lifespan, she's looking for just DNA from the lover, and then a later point or a different time in a month, she's looking for provisions and care, also attention. So she does have this dual mating strategy. But to simplify it, you can say, yeah, women are holding the sex card against you and against girls, you're holding the investment commitment card. So how do you technically win in inverted commons? Well, men win, we win if we get sex from her without giving her back the investment and the commitment. Does that make sense? She's getting no provisions, she's not really getting your time, you just nail her. Okay? She folds first. Women win by getting commitment and investment from you, your time, your money, your resources, your energy, you know, you're the emotional tampon. You're her best friend. You listen to all her problems. You lend her shit. They get all that, but they don't fuck you. Okay? So she still holds on to the sex card, you fold first. You know that as the friend zone or as white knighting, the protracted friend zone, which is marriage, that you can't escape from. So do you see what I mean? On one side, she's holding the sex card, on the other side, you're holding the investment commitment card. Now, of course, there's that sweet spot where, like I said, time of the month or time in her life, she just wants sex. You want sex. So you get that fuck buddy thing, you get that win win thing. It's the second type of hustle, I call it in street hustle where you're hustling against the world. Okay. Casual sex that nobody knows about. But as anyone who's listening to this podcast knows who's got daygame dating girl notch experience, even the casual fuck buddy stuff eventually becomes her trying to get investment or commitment out of you. Again, subconscious, she's trying to cut your balls off. That's her job. So I've had many fuck buddy relationships even with bisexual girls where eventually you're not getting the sex for free. She wants to sleep over. She wants to go to the cinema with you. She wants to hold your hand in public. She wants to make her status on Facebook say in a relationship and she wants to tag you in her photos. Okay. Is she aware of this sexual strategy? No. Is she aware of why she wants to fuck the DJ when she goes on holiday even though she's got a stable boyfriend from church? No. It's the same as you wandering around your day. Are you aware of all the boobs and asses you're looking at and why you're so horny? No. Are you aware of why you're scared of commitment or being dragged into some contractual agreement? Often men feel on, you know, some level, this is weird, I don't want to do it, but they don't know why. Evolutionary biology can tell you why, read Evolution of Desire, Professor Bus or read Sperm Wars. Okay? Or even read Richard Dawkins, The Selfish Gene, which explains it on a genetic level. But anyway, let's get back to the topic because none of that is new. Who folds first? So imagine it like people at a poker table. Is she gonna give you the sex without the wanting investment and commitment or are you gonna give her the investment and commitment without getting sex or much sex? Yeah. Now I like to think of it as what do they say in some games, first mover advantage. Yep. Setting out your stall. So at the very beginning, if you present yourself as the boyfriend or even worse as the friend and you say, yeah, I'm happy to go along with this, you fold right at the beginning. Okay. So she drags it out and you're in the friend zone or you're in the boyfriend box and many daygamers pretend to be her boyfriend. This is called hustle number one by giving her lots of investment and commitment. Buying her stuff, going on five dates, doing the cinema, park, trips abroad and she's like, yeah, this guy's definitely my boyfriend. Okay? And I'll give him some sex but he's my boyfriend. That's daygame in boyfriend mode. Whereas first mover advantage, setting your stall out, if you say, listen, right from the very beginning, when you stop her, the way you dress, the way you walk, the way you talk with this very sexy voice. Hi. I know this is random, but I think you look beautiful. Alright? Twinkling eyes, cheeky smirk, playful spikes. You're suggesting you've got other girls in your life. Guys always say to me, how does she know you're the lover? How does she know that it's casual sex? Well, she knows. Okay. The vibe of the digging, the vibe of the texting. Look at my text exchange, which is all on my blog this week. You'll see how I got laid in The Baltics presenting myself as the freedom adventure guy, the lover, she knows. So you set your stall out and basically you're saying, look, I'd like to have sex, but I'm not the commitment investment guy. Now the sweet spot is hustle number two where she's like, yep, right now in my life or right now in the time of my month, that's what I'm looking for. So God bless the lover, let's have sex and that's what happens. Or many times she's a maybe girl where she she would like more but she fucks you and then she tries to lock you down. But at least you're open and honest about it. How does she know? Because of your, life of travel or the way that you answer her shit test. She knows there's other women in your life, you imply it. There's an earring on your bedside table. There's a stray hair in your shower or on your pillow. Okay? From another girl. She knows. So that's called first mover advantage because once you state your position, non verbally, she goes along with it. So I've said girls are your mirror. Alright? She reflects your vibe and you're the player, she goes along with it. You present yourself as the boyfriend, she goes along with it. In fighting, think that's called posturing, you know, where before anyone's touched anyone, it's like when a bouncer just postures, maybe starts screaming, alright, makes himself larger than life, puffs himself up, that's a classic evolutionary thing, see it with dogs, you see it with peacocks, is spooking the opponent, I think they say. And once the opponent is spooked, it's hard to switch those roles. So that's why I say it's hard to recover if you're the just bland colleague at work or the gay best friend. It's hard to then get into lover mode. You can go from lover to boyfriend, but you can't go from boyfriend to lover. I'll say that again, it's very important. You can go from lover to boyfriend, I. Bad boy to nice guy, but you can't really go from nice guy to boyfriend. Yep. So in the pimping world, they call this hand. Right? From obvious meanings. How much hand do you have? Alright. Will she let you have sex without a condom? Will she let you cum on her face? Will she swallow? Will she let you do anal? Will she let you do all these lovely things? Well, she will if you've got lots of hand, I. E. If you've got the frame. Yeah. She will use beta bait, remember that video I made on beta bait to see if you fold first. She'll try and trap you and trip you up, but do you hold the frame? Do you have hand in the relationship? And you know you're in love mode because, she's happy to be kicked out of your bed. She's happy not to go to the cinema. She's happy for no public displays of affection. She's happy for casual sex. Disclaimer for a time. Okay? When does she accidentally show her show you her hand? Let's say you haven't slept with a girl and you're lying in bed, maybe you're in a different city or a different country, and she texts you drunk. Late one night you get a message, whatever the message is, that always makes me smile because she's accidentally shown her hand that she she's interested in sexual matters and, or maybe she sends you a selfie out of the blue, again she's showing you her hand, that she's horny. Alright, so maybe write that date down in your diary, January 12. You know that that's the middle of her month. Okay? Or when does she come over for casual sex? You and she wears white. That's another Torero tip. No girl goes on a date or round to yours wearing white panties or tight white jeans if she's on the rack. Okay. That's probably the middle of her month. So write it down. You know she's horny. You know she's looking for lover mode guy. So you are not folding and you're getting her to fold, I. E. She's she's giving you the sex. If not, then, mate, you're getting hustled. Alright? If you're going on all those dates and you're putting in all that time and investment but you're not getting sex, then you're getting hustled. Right? The male notch for us is getting sex, but think about it this way. The female notch, if you like, is getting all your time and all your commitments without having your p in her v. So she's getting that affection for free. The old saying online is that to get the male notch, have to deny her the female notch or for her to get the female notch, she has to denial deny you the male notch because this is a game. Don't bristle, don't get angry, but it is a game. Right? Somebody wins and somebody loses. Yet there's that middle stage, I'll say again, of win win, but it doesn't last long. So her notch, you can think of it as what as validation. Alright? She feels like she's got you. She feels like she's got your time. So the pickup artist, obviously, he keeps her or he denies her that validation. He keeps her on the edge of validation through what? A pickup quiz of the week. How do you deny a girl validation? How do you keep her on the edge of validation? You qualify her. You challenge her. You vacuum. You show indifference. This is all catnip. Yeah. This is what gets girls excited. You know, when you I said to a student recently this, when you look at boobs and ass, you walk around, you feel so horny. What's the female equivalent? And the student was like, well, she feels horny. She wants to have sex. Yeah. That's the time of the month win win thing. But what really turns girls on and you know this from chick lit movies and romantic comedies and romantic novels. What what when we feel really horny, what's the female equivalent in terms of this who falls first analogy? Well, it's it's her dreaming of getting you. If you've read Pride and Prejudice or those kind of books, it's the girl dreaming of winning the bad boy over, locking him down, right, getting you on her hook forever and ever with wedding bells, amen. That's what really turns them on. Okay? So don't give it to her. Deny it from her. Let her crave it. Let her hamster wheel spin and let her dream about getting you, but she doesn't. That's the ultimate fantasy girls have. Finding a bad boy lover and locking him down. Right? That's Heathcliff in Wuthering Heights, mister Darcy in Pride and Prejudice. You can see I read too many English lit books at school. But that brings us on to the warning of the female hustler that I've said many times before, if you're not the hustler, then she is hustling you, right? She's not hotter than you, she's, older than you, Or she's just getting all that free time and commitment. My friend, knock knock, she's hustling you. She's a time waster. She's draining your time, energy, and resources. I made a video online from Ukraine called false positives, especially in Ukraine. Watch out for these girls, professional hustlers. False positives. You think it's going well, but you ain't getting laid. Guys go, yeah, yeah, man. I got 10 numbers. Yeah. I've been on six dates. I go, mate, did you get laid? No. Alright. So at some point you're being hustled. And, there's a winner and there's a loser. And that's why we say you can't, talk about this stuff with girls. There's many guys that are looking for red pilled girls to talk about red pill with, to talk about biology with. She doesn't understand because she has a different strategy. It's why relationship counseling doesn't work. It's why being quote unquote vulnerable with girls doesn't work or full disclosure. It's idealistic. You can't sit around a table and say, do you know what? I'm going to abandon my sexual sexual strategy. I think you should abandon your sexual strategy. Let's just hold hands. She might agree to it in principle, she might say she understands daygame and pickup and dating, but she's got her priorities which is mating babies and provisions. Okay? And if you were a girl, would, have those strategies too, so don't get angry once again. But you are getting strung along right if if it's what do they say negotiated pussy, negotiated desire. So this is essentially the problem you could say with monogamy or certainly with friend zoning, right? When a girl's saying, look you can hang around with me or you can have my pussy, we can have sex if, capital letters if, flashing signs, okay? Do any of these apply to you right now gentlemen, today as you're listening to the podcast? You're having sex with a girl, she says you can have sex with me if you spend lots of time with me. You can have sex with me if I stay around yours five nights a week. You can have sex with me if you go shopping with me. Alright? You can have sex with me if you meet my parents. For some guys, I hope this doesn't apply to you, but some girls say you can have sex with me if you help me with money. You help me with college fees. You buy me this. You fly me here. This is a big one for a lot of listeners. You can have sex with me if you're not having sex with any other girl. Do any of those apply to you? That my friend is called negotiated pussy. Chris Rock has got a great standard routine about this. I think if you type into YouTube passport pussy, Chris Rock, he's talking exactly about the switch from when she's just banging you from lover mode, hustle number two, to when she's banging you in negotiation. So he talks about going on a small holiday, then a bigger holiday, then a big holiday and you can't go back and she's like, yeah, I'll bang you when we get to this destination baby and there's you know sand brushing up against my pussy. Chris Rock obviously says it better, it's his routine. So who has the frame? Who has hand? And daygamers will know, regular listeners will know that we keep the frame. We're the black sheep, we're not the sheep inside the pen, we're the shepherd, we're the sheepdog, we're controlling it. We're not literally having pimp hand as in being physical, but we are the benevolent dictator. We're in the lead, We're leading. We're making the decisions decisions, and she likes it. That's the definition of benevolent dictator. Yeah. The old saying, speak softly, but carry a big stick. It's a metaphor. Alright. Don't write to me. It's a metaphor, for a good parent, a good teacher, a good lover, a good man. Alright. You have the frame and you don't fold. You certainly don't fold too soon. I know guys that are 18, 23, 29, 31. They get into pickup, they sleep with three girls, they find one. She cuts off his balls, she moves in, he says, Tom, I'm in a serious relationship and I say, what the fuck, man? You're 21. You've slept with two girls and you're in a serious relationship giving her your time, energy, and resources. You've cashed in your chips way too early. I have sympathy for a guy who's been doing pickup for two decades and he's 40 or he's 50 and he says, do you know what, Tom? I just wanna be lazy. I wanna sit on my ass. I want a dog. I don't wanna chase pussy anymore. I've done two decades of banging hundreds of girls and I'm I'm just just getting a missus. Alright. It's not my style but I understand. Alright. Shit's gotten old. You've gotten tired. Okay. And maybe in that relationship you still have the frame, you still have the hand. Ultimately, I warn you my friend, she will move her crap in. She will demand marriage. She will demand monogamy even if she said she she hasn't and she's bisexual. That'll change. She will demand you give up all your freedoms and bad habits. She will demand a lot from you. But of course I don't want to piss on your party, I'm not pissing on relationship parties because what what do you get from folding? You get her affection, you get her love, you get her, you get, somebody making you food or cleaning your apartment. You get companionship. Okay, fine. In your fifties, sixties, seventies, and if you've had all your lays and you've still got hand, okay. But too many men, far too many men, most men listening to this are in win lose or lose lose relationships. I'm saying if it's win win, you're getting stuff out of it, she's getting stuff out of it. I think that's not unsustainable, but that's just my opinion. If if you've got that and it's been great and you're in a win win relationship for five years, ten years, fifteen years, well, why are you listening to this podcast? But fair play, I don't want to piss on your party, as I've said. But my view of relationships is that eventually someone concedes. Alright? Either you're just getting all that lovely casual sex and you're not putting in the commitment, she'll nag you for that, or you're putting in all the time and commitment and resources and you're not getting the sex you want or the sexual freedoms you want. And it's a classic fallacy that the guy just keeps going down that road, you know, it's the what do they say in economics? Sunk costs and he refuses to to give up on it because he's invested so much in it, he doesn't wanna feel like a fool, but he keeps going with it rather than going out there and being a lion and hunting and getting fresh leads. But as they say in economics, sunk costs are sunk. There's no getting all that time back. Alright? You've put it in. There's no point shouting at her and saying, why don't you give me more sex? Why don't you let me have sex with younger, hotter girls? No, mate. You put in the time, you put in the commitment, you folded first. Alright? Her siren song, her mermaid song pulled you in and you, you gave in. And as a pickup artist, this is interesting, I was talking to a guy on the phone a couple of days about this. As a pickup artist, every week, pretty much, you have to resist the siren song. Every week, I meet a quote unquote dream girl if I'm daygaming. Every week I go on a date or sleep with or try and sleep with a dream girl. Okay? Very beautiful girl. And the siren song of her pull into the rocks for a sailor, this is good linking it back to the filthy pirate analogy, is strong. As a pickup artist you have to resist and resist another one and resist another one and the hardest bit is, when you're lying in bed and you've had sex or you've had sex five times with her that day or that month and she's cooking for you and she's cleaning your apartment if you're in, you know, Middle Europe or South America or Asia and she's so sweet and she's singing for you and she's bathing you in that female energy and you get what I call affection addiction. Players want it more, players fool harder. There's my favorite podcast to think ever on this iTunes channel or this YouTube channel called Tom Torero affection addiction. It's just about this thing of being pulled into this vortex of beautiful, fluffy, soft female energy and you just want the game to stop, you're tired of chasing, you're tired of going out there, you're tired of holding the frame and you're lying in bed and you just say, do you know what, honey? I fold my cards. I concede. You've got me. But what's the big flashing fucking light? When you fold your cards, when you say to a girl, do you know what? You can move in. I am vulnerable. I'm yours. I'm not a player. I'm just a nice guy. Let's be open, honest, and vulnerable. Do you know what the sick irony is? She hates it. Her pussy dries up. She feels subconsciously disgusted. Alright? Because girls want daddy, girls want the teacher, girls want you to have hand, girls want you to hold the frame, girls don't want you to concede. What did I used to say? Girls like to get a guy they can't get. Alright? Girls like to guy get a guy they can't get. It's a sick irony of life, but yeah. So are you making concessions wrapping this up or is she making concessions? Now some guys take that in on a two d level and they say I must never make any concessions with girls. I am alpha. And they just get into battles with girls, which is ultimately a sign of weak frame. If you're very brittle and you're constantly fighting people and getting into battles, it's weak frame. You're reactive. You're prickly. I say in pickup, choose your battles wisely. Otherwise it's very petty. Sometimes you have to lose the battle to win the war. So in that text exchange from the girl I just slept with, I suggest 07:30 and she comes back with, no, 08:00. Now I could be, hey, no, I'm holding the frame. No, bitch. It's 07:30 or nothing. My way or the highway. No. Okay. A later day is actually very good because your chances of the lay go up the later the date is. Patent Tom Torero copyright trademark. So I lost the battle to win the war. Again, I suggested a different kind of drink and she said, no. Do you know what? I'd prefer wine, like I said to you. And I could've gone, no, bitch. We're having the whiskey or nothing. No. Lose the battle to win the war. So you make these concessions, of course, even as a player. It's really late. There's no cabs. It's snowing. She sleeps over. Okay. But Tom Torero said she must never sleep over. Okay. This is the three d real real world, not the two d map. Okay? Or occasionally in public, you hold her hand. But Tom Torero said you must never hold her hand. It's the three d real world. Okay? But ultimately, as I said in my very first daygame talk about eight years ago, if she's leading on a strong level from any point from open to close, then something's wrong. Alright. It's who has the frame? Who has hand? Who's controlling the narrative? Are you the hammer or are the nail? As Simon and Garfunkel used to sing about, do you hold the frame or does she hold the frame? Does she fold her cards first and go along with the casual sex idea or do you fold the cards first and go along with her commitment investment idea? Ultimately, friend listening to this podcast, are you the gambler or are you the dealer? Are you addicted to sitting there in the casino losing all your money or are you the house smiling, taking the money? Who folds first? Podcast a 145. The next one will be back in freezing cold Middle Europe once again in the van from London. I shall say in a good British voice, goodbye.