---
title: Episode 15 Starting Out
episode_number: 15
era: early
source_file: Episode 15 Starting Out.mp3
audio_size_mb: 55.2
duration_sec: 1807.2
duration_min: 30.1
language: en
provider: deepgram
model: nova-3
diarized: true
confidence: 0.993
transcribed_at: 2026-05-27T17:02:42Z---

# Episode 15 Starting Out

**Speaker 0:** Tom Torero, podcast 50 back in London. The sun is shining. Spring is here. Hallelujah. I was gonna say I'm alone in my room on a Thursday morning, but I'm not. I've recruited, a really nice guy. I shouldn't say nice guy because the topic of my current vlogs is the nice bad boy. Okay. I'll say a really good guy, a guy who emailed me. He's called George, and we've met before. And George's story is fascinating because he's a younger chap than myself. I know it's hard to believe that I'm not in my early twenties, but I'm 35 and George is 21, I think. And he emailed me this story about his life and what he's doing here in London. And I thought this is good because so many younger guys contact me, even 16, 17 year olds, that sounds dodgy. But they they are asked these questions that need answering. So this podcast, you could say, is for the younger audience, but we're also gonna talk a lot about, obviously, daygame in London and flow mad stuff, travel, income on the side. George is also, involved a lot in health and fitness, so we'll bring that in as well. But it's just gonna be stream of consciousness, really. I suppose if we miss anything out and you've got questions for George, then you can leave them below and we'll get George back. Anyway, alright mister George? How are doing, Tom? Yeah. I'm good, man. Cheers for giving up your morning to to come on this podcast because I know you've moved to London and you're working in a coffee shop now. That's right. Yeah. But before we delve into what's going on now in true cinema form, we need to go to the past. And can you can you give your your story from not being in London and, you know, expectations to coming to London? Yeah? Mhmm. Yeah. Sure. I guess it all kind of started knowing about

**Speaker 1:** daygame when I was at university and you know, having a blast at uni and then that all kind of ended in the summer last year. I secured a job to kind of start in September in the kind of

**Speaker 0:** accountancy finance world. A very very safe prospect, A very like one directional road.

**Speaker 1:** Very safe bet, yeah. I mean, if you was to kind of keep going down that line, could be on a good buck.

**Speaker 0:** I bet your parents loved that when you said like accountancy and all that. Yeah, you know, it's kind of going to society standards and

**Speaker 1:** you're kinda sorted if you enjoy it at least. Yeah. So anyway, I had that to come back to in September. In the summer, did some traveling which was great and came back in September to the job, which after a few months in, decided it wasn't for me. I think because of the traveling that I've done as well, it kind of opened my eyes to the kind of possibilities of really kind of enjoying life and getting out there and having new experiences and adventures.

**Speaker 0:** One could almost say grabbing life by the horns. That is amazing. You could indeed. Yeah.

**Speaker 1:** And you and you weren't in London at this point. You weren't living in London, were you? I wasn't in London at all. No. I had come back from uni, lived with my parents, started the job in September all the way through to January, which was very intense and decided it wasn't for me. So January was the time. Kinda cut it out. Yeah. That is mental.

**Speaker 0:** If you've seen the movie American Beauty, have you seen that movie, George, with Kevin Spacey? I haven't yet. No. Oh, it's a classic it's a classic movie for mindsets and unplugging. It's a bit like Fight Club. But if you know what I mean, this is George's Kevin Spacey moment where he just wakes up and just goes, fuck it. In the movie, Kevin Spacey says, like, in a year from now, I'll be dead. Or maybe he says, in a week from now, I can't remember. But George is not gonna die. But what was this big thing? What was this big decision when in January 2015? Mhmm. What did you decide to do?

**Speaker 1:** Well, I've really sit down over Christmas and decided where do I wanna kind of see my life going over the next few years once I'm at this kind of pivotal young age as well and I decided adventure was the kind of way forward for me at this minute and perhaps in the future I would come back to that kind of steady career prospects. But right now, I wanted to kind of get out there and start enjoying life more. So what did you decide to do to your parents? Amusement perhaps? Yeah. So I kind of sat down with parents and discussed it, not happy in the job. And if I'm honest, they were they were understanding. It was obviously a big decision to make and at the end of the day, they wanted me to be happy. Yep. So decided to quit the job in early January and take a little bit of time off in January to kind of sort out the next big

**Speaker 0:** bit in the puzzle which was moving to London. That is, yeah, a big step when you're 21 that I can't imagine I would have taken when I was 21. London, big bad London. And now you're in big bad London, you've got a place in a nice nice part of London, very good for day game, and you're working in a coffee shop, to keep ticking over. Mhmm. Yeah. That's right. Yeah. Obviously, you need some sort of income to survive the London lifestyle, so it's kind of a baby step to a bigger picture. How did Practically, how did you find your property? Guys are gonna ask that question. How did you sit down and find somewhere to live not that expensive in London? Yeah.

**Speaker 1:** For me, I just used spareroom.com. Yeah. It was a good good source. I would recommend signing up for early bird access and really checking it, you know, a few times a day because the properties after a day or two they've gone. It's a very quick market. Yeah. It's cutthroat.

**Speaker 0:** And Gumtree, I've had like mixed results with Gumtree. I'd go with Sperry. We'll link it below. That's really good. Mhmm. And how did you find your coffee shop job?

**Speaker 1:** Yeah. Just went to the headquarters. I think because of it being a coffee shop, obviously, being English kind of stood you up from the crowd, so it wasn't too too hard to get and you just have a few interviews. As long as you kinda show social intelligence, it's pretty good to go. Bringing in the game skills. Exactly. The church is, yeah,

**Speaker 0:** in very good shape, good good health, high SMV, would say, mate. Thank you. You know? Buttering him up. So it's all good. I can imagine you walking into a headquarters or whatever and they just went, yeah. Okay. Cool. Bring them on. And that's that that is keeping you going with your rent, know, and everything like that. Exactly. Yeah. It's just about enough to kinda cover rent.

**Speaker 1:** Food is pretty much, you know, free on the job, so rent and and travel.

**Speaker 0:** Nice man. So obviously, a part of the focus for coming to London is girls, I imagine. And I nag other guys who ask me questions. They always leave this question below. They say, I live in a small town. I'm 21, 22. What do I do? How do I get really good at game? And the only answer I always say is move to a big city. So you've just got more to shoot at. Yeah. Yeah. So this is obviously gonna impact on your like your daygame regime, your habits. What's your plan for day game in London? Mhmm. Definitely. I think,

**Speaker 1:** obviously, to start with, it's quite overwhelming moving to a big city and you've got a lot to kind of sort out and you wanna keep in in touch with your friends and make sure that it's not all day game focus, which I think I I did for the first week or two, which can bog you down. So I'd recommend just kinda building up a lifestyle around it and not just making it your main focus. Once But you've kind of built out that lifestyle, just trying to go out, you know,

**Speaker 0:** three, four times a week. So it's on your doorstep so you can kind of do it on the way to work even. And we we just had a coffee nearby and we were chatting about, I did a bit of it for George, you know, where you're just bantering and you're just being sharp with the customers and the the like the other people that walk in. It's classic Mystery Method, you bring people in, you create a happy vibe. You know what I mean about practicing that throughout the day and your job is amazing for that. Exactly. Yeah. Definitely recommend

**Speaker 1:** getting a job where it is social. If you're gonna try and make day game a focus of your lifestyle, having a social job really kind of gets that muscle working all the debt all Yeah. Time during the day. So And your particular brand of coffee shop,

**Speaker 0:** other coffee shops are available, but your one in particular is really social, like they're very chatty, aren't they? It's very international. It is. Yeah. It's it's quite a banterous one Yeah. Which kind of, yeah, works well. Nice, man. Okay. Next question guys ask is about wings. Because as we all know, solo daygame, especially in the winter in London is absolutely brutal. It's good for you. Bit like solo gym, guess. But having a gym buddy, like a daygame buddy, how did you go about that for coming to London?

**Speaker 1:** Okay. Well, because I've kind of been in daygame for a little bit a while now. I've kind of had a few really good wings which have also followed my kind of path of of coming to London. So I've had them already. Forums have been quite good, but you have to be careful for your needs. But I think really, once you found a really good wing, just meeting up regularly and having a bond and also having a bond maybe outside of daygame is is good as well. Yeah. I always suggest going to have a beer with the guy or a cup of tea with the guy first

**Speaker 0:** and bantering, seeing if you get on on a kind of a social level. And then hitting the streets and just testing out a little bit, not committing to, like, one wing because the importance of a wing is critical, isn't it, for vibe? And I always say that if they could be a little bit better than you, that's good because they can kick your ass. You can you can be motivated by them. They need to be punctual and reliable. A lot of wings I remember in the past disappear or like they vanish or they say they're gonna come out and they don't come out. So tell us the difference between going out on your own, doing daygame and having a wing in London to do daygame.

**Speaker 1:** I think solo obviously really toughens you up, so you should never neglect that fact. And even when you have a wing, you should still be trying to go out solo. But finding the right wing is obviously also crucial. And if you do have someone that you feel is is kind of bringing you down, I think be sure to cut it out. Yep. Because positivity at the end of the day is what you should be giving out. Yeah. Vibe. 100%.

**Speaker 0:** This links to expectations. We were talking about this before that, before you move to a big city, especially if you're, like, 21 and you're coming to a coming at it fresh, you have these daygame and lifestyle expectations. And then the shit hits the fan and you put your bags down in your room or you walk out of your place of work and you look at your watch and you're like, it's day game time and then like reality kicks in you. Big time. Yeah. I think

**Speaker 1:** having big expectations which I definitely did move into a big city to kind of practice this stuff and really get into that kind of lifestyle. It's not good at all. It can really mess you up because you kind of think, okay, I'm gonna sort out a few few days this week, kind of get some good things on the go and when that doesn't happen, you're relying on that to make you happy which is is never good.

**Speaker 0:** Yeah. It's it's that thing of having the having other things going on as you said, yeah. Especially in London where the loneliness can really kick in. And I know you said to me recently that you do go through these ups and these downs and the expectation is putting you on this high and then you can really crash if you like, if you're too hard on yourself or it's cold in London or it's dark in London or you're working so hard that you're knackered after work. Mhmm. And you're thinking, shit, I haven't done my day game. That's called the dark night of the soul. Yeah. Do you wanna like spill the beans on that? Because many daygamers don't talk about that. Sure, yeah.

**Speaker 1:** That is a big kind of thing. Think when I moved to London about two and a half weeks ago now, the first week was really good and meeting our old wings and really going out and having a lot of fun and it was really really good out there. But kind of a couple of weeks in, having a couple of days off, you know, soloing on to go out with, It kind of went on a downward spiral I think because of expectation and the whole kind of London vibe really kicked in and I just went on a downer really and really felt low. And you asked me, which is a very good question, what do you do when you're on a day game downer?

**Speaker 0:** And guys don't talk about the day game downer because it's showing weakness, it's showing vulnerability, guess, yeah? And I think you have to accept as part of the journey, however cheesy this sounds, there's ups and downs. In terms of my mental state and my history of depression, I accept it and think like there's gonna be future episodes of downs and I'm gonna ride the ups. And when the downs hit, then I'm gonna sit it out like a storm and I know it's gonna end. Because the problem with the downer is you think this is gonna go on forever. Like I'm gonna be lonely. I don't know anybody. I'm never gonna get a date with a hottie. And like we were saying in the coffee shop, you know that thing where suddenly you get a really good number or you go on an instant date or you go on a you kiss this bird on a date and you your brain immediately forgets like two months of downers. Do you know what I mean? Yeah,

**Speaker 1:** definitely. So

**Speaker 0:** daygame has this wonderful ability to like memory loss, I think. So getting a positive reference experience, which in London is definitely gonna happen and it often happens quite randomly. You could be slogging your guts out doing daygame all day every day and suddenly a girl might walk into your cafe, you have a little chat, she leaves her number and then you date her for two months. It's mad and you're like, what what? You know, that's just gift from the gods, you know. So do you know what I mean about

**Speaker 1:** riding it out? Yeah. It's funny. Think because I've kind of been in this kind of journey for a little bit now and kind of having obviously mentors like Tom to look up to, this kind of fear of low and you could say depression really kinda kicks in. And I think what I did originally last week when I had these three days off to go out, I was gonna plan three days off, hidden it solo. The first day kicked in, didn't go too well but I kinda stuck it out and maybe that wasn't the best thing to do because I was coming from a place of negativity and that kind of got me into a downward spiral. But looking on the up, kind of going out and socializing, just getting together with your mates and having having a fun lifestyle outside again really kind of brings you back into connection.

**Speaker 0:** Yeah. It's an ongoing debate and I don't think there's an answer. I think there's perhaps two answers that whether should you start with lifestyle first and have like an awesome lifestyle or should you just do hardcore daygame where you feel shit for most of the time. And both are true, think. And that what I did was hardcore immersion, but I had that original wing, Rami, and I had this other dude, this crazy alpha dude. So we did socialize in the area where you live actually. We used to do the daygame for about an hour and then end up in a pub and just drink and have a laugh and watch movies and stuff. So yeah, full immersion is good for a skill set, you can't deny that and pain is gonna be part of it. But as this flow mad thing is all about, making sure you've got these buffers, which is keeping in touch with your family, going home occasionally to get out of London, doing something completely non day game related like going down to Brighton on the train with somebody and just doing nothing. Just sitting by the sea. I found at the moment, this is really stopping the crashes that I used to have. Because me and other daygame nuts used to go hardcore daygame for two, three, four months. And then have these really big depression things where you hate daygame, daygame revulsion, we call it, and you just crash and burn. And that's true for traveling, that's true for daygame. I guess we can link it in now to your other passion which is health and fitness here. Yeah. I am not qualified to talk about this at all, but George is George is in very good shape and he's only 21. Do you know what I mean about hitting it too hard at the gym and then crashing? I guess it's really bad for your for your muscles as well. Just just those rest days or whatever and having buddies to do it with and how can you tie health and fitness into this kind of day game mentality?

**Speaker 1:** Good question. I guess both of them kind of stem from the same principle of having to put in the effort and obviously you need to be passionate about it or it's it's not gonna kind of get off the ground. But if you really are into your health and fitness, obviously taking a step back and having breaks now and again and switching up your training and doing different programs, different types of body movements and also your your diet as well, really looking into that and eating proper clean nutritious food really kind of helps the kind of the brain kind of positivity

**Speaker 0:** as it were. Sure, and physiologically undoubtedly,

**Speaker 1:** yeah. Yeah, So that really links into kind of once you get out there and do do some day game, you feel good in yourself because you know your kind of self worth, that you are coming from this place of love. But you know what I mean about

**Speaker 0:** if a guy says to me, oh, I don't want a cold approach yet. I don't wanna do day game just yet. I kind of want to get motivated first. Know, I've I've got like a lot of videos I want to watch and I've got this new book I want to read on positivity. And then I think I'm going to start daygame probably in the summer. Do know that analogy with the gym? It's like me going, just I am gonna go to the gym, but first, you know, I'm gonna do this project and this travel and all that. You can't put the cart before the horse. You know what I mean? You if you wanna get fit, you have to go to the gym and sort out your diet. And if you wanna be good at daygame, you have to hit the streets. Do know what I mean about that? Action.

**Speaker 1:** Yeah, definitely. You just gotta jump straight in really. And it's like when you kind of first start the gym or once you come back to it after a few months off, you will your muscles are hurt for two, three days afterwards, which I guess, similar to game in terms of your feeling once you come back to it or once you start it, it's not going too well and that kind of really hits home.

**Speaker 0:** Yeah. Yeah. Very true. Very true. And I guess the topic of making it a habit, forming habits is more important probably at the end of the day than motivation. I know motivation's really good and perhaps people listen to podcasts and watch videos and read articles. You can't deny that you need day game motivation, I need day game motivation and getting off our ass. That's really important. But the habit forming, like you must have at some point formed a gym habit or a eating habit. Can you remember when you did that?

**Speaker 1:** I think it was when I really fell in love with it really. So the first kind of, say the first few weeks when you're back into the gym or start it, you're on a kind of a gym high or at least I was for the first month and then How old were you then? This was back when I was in school, probably about 15. Jesus, starting properly good. That is amazing. Yeah. I think you've really gotta have a love love for it otherwise. You won't keep it up as well but yeah. After a few months you will go through this kind of dip of you know, not getting the results you want from it and you'll start questioning it and like is it the best use of your time and then

**Speaker 0:** it's just kind of riding out and and keep going really. Yeah. Exactly the same with daygame. Yeah. Which leads us nicely onto you've got that passion, health and fitness. You've got the daygame passion. You're now in London and taking time out from like the sensible option that people would say. So coming back to your story, what's the plan for like London and the future? Do you have any kind of plan?

**Speaker 1:** Yeah. Way I see it in my head is moving to London this month, last month February. Riding out perhaps here till the end of the summer and really kind of having some some crazy adventures and really enjoying life and kinda getting out there, socializing, meeting people. And then once it kinda gets to the end of the summer, before we get into the winter, I'd like to then go off traveling for at least a good six months. South America, Asia, know, the typical kind of roots really grow as a person and develop that. Not only social intelligence, but kind of core masculinity as a person I feel really needs to kind of develop in myself.

**Speaker 0:** Mate, for 21, you're you seem pretty solid to me. I'm very envious because I like I said, I didn't start till I was 20 or have a day game properly, 28, 29. So you're so ahead of the game. And the first time I met you, do you remember I asked you the question, at what age does a man's value peak? Can you remember the rough answer? Mhmm. What what's a man's peak age in terms of being attractive to women? Mhmm. What do you think it is? Is it more towards the late kind of twenties, isn't it? Yeah, even early thirties. If you look at a guy's value in a sexual market sense, it's 30 to 35 probably. When a guy's got himself sorted, he's obviously moved out of his mom's house. Hopefully, he's got his look sorted, his grooming sorted, his fashion sorted, his money sorted, his job sorted. And the secret is that he's got all these life experiences, which an 18 year old guy doesn't get. And I got more attention from girls and more positive reactions from girls in my early thirties than I ever did when I was 20, even 21. So, man, you are so far ahead of the game. It's awesome. And if you listen to this and you're 17 or even if you're 25, it's all good because, yeah, traveling around South America, you're just gonna be a super boss. Do you remember my mate, Sam? Sam Django? Yeah. Yeah. You remind me of him in that he sorted everything out by the time he was 21 and now he's living in Spain. If you're listening to this, Sam, I bet you're in bed, you lazy fucker. Get out of bed and go do some daygame. Sam's an awesome guy, but he's he's amazing. He started when he's about 19, I think. And just rocking the daygame and now like you, he's rocking the travel. Not sure what he's doing for income. And that leads me on to my final question. Do you see how smooth this is going? Nice transition. Mate. Because we got a little list in my little black book. And the last thing I scribbled down was guys are gonna say, alright, this guy George is working in a coffee shop and he's just said he's gonna go traveling. Like, what the like, how how are you gonna get money? What's the plan for the future for making this like a life, not just like a bit of fun? What what are you thinking about that?

**Speaker 1:** Yeah. I mean, obviously, the coffee shop job is literally income equals outgoing, so there's no savings at all, rightly said. I do have a little bit of savings which revolves around some business I did in eBay a few years ago, which I Selling Viagra. You could say that. So we Yeah. So that really hit off. So that's a little bit of savings there. Once I'm in London, I'd like to get some side projects on the go. So perhaps in terms of doing my own kind of VLOG and really kind of getting out there and connecting with guys and sharing experiences I've had.

**Speaker 0:** Yeah man, so like an income stream on the side or eventually passive, I. E. Four hour work week flow mad kind of stuff eventually, Which does take time to set up but I guess that's your goal if you're gonna be traveling. If not English teaching or something like that. Yeah, definitely, yeah. And I was kicking your ass about these vlogs and sharing what you're doing because imagine if you had somebody's whole story, I used to nag some about this. Imagine if Sam had started vlogging or blogging or tweeting or whatever when he was 19 and you could see his whole journey to when he's like a 35 year old guy. That would just be a ridiculous historical case study of a man growing in like with relationships and with money and then with his health and with his fashion. So yeah, I'm really encouraging you to do it, man. And in the future, we'll get you back and do, if you want, do vlogs with you because for guys to look at you as a 21 year old is probably way more useful than them looking at me as a 35 year old because it's all about guys having empathy and connection. Yeah? And your story is exactly on the money with what, I guess, guys are going through. Do know what I mean? Sharing this story. Mhmm. Definitely. Yeah. I guess whatever you feel you can connect best with and kind of give you that inspiration

**Speaker 1:** is

**Speaker 0:** Yeah. And I once made a video called why I hate self development or something or why I hate life coaching. And I made that that had the most like negative emails I've ever got based on that video because guys were like, what the fuck? You can't say that about Tony Robbins and my, you know, inner game program that I'm doing. And I didn't mean to offend anyone. I just meant that radical action for me is what it's all about and is what changed me. And then the inner stuff kind of changed afterwards. You know what I mean? And you're a guy who's moved to London, like quit his job, got another job, doing daygame, going to the gym, going traveling. So you're doing the radical action kind of approach, I think. Does that make sense? Yeah. Definitely. Guys can get too caught up in the inner stuff which is kind of delaying

**Speaker 1:** the action. I I think that's definitely what I was guilty for as well to start with kind of really, you know, reading about it which which is good only up until a certain point and then you really need to take action. Otherwise, you're not gonna get the experiences and references that you you need. Yeah. Nice, man. So you might be traveling from

**Speaker 0:** what, autumn this year?

**Speaker 1:** Yeah, yeah, like September, October kind of time. Nice man. South

**Speaker 0:** America is, I'm looking at the map now that's on my wall. South America is pretty uncharted for me. But I'm doing this crazy thing. I'm not gonna tell anyone what I'm doing but in October I'm doing a crazy thing where I'm gonna end up in hang on, let me see the map. In Brazil. I'm gonna end up in Salvador on the East Coast Of Brazil and I'll probably be there end of October. So if you're in South America man, we could do obviously, I wanna hit Argentina for Buenos Aires and obviously, I wanna hit Colombia for Bogota and my dream was always to get a motorbike really to do it. A la The Motorcycle Diaries. Excellent film if you haven't seen it. But have you got have you got plans of places you wanna go to?

**Speaker 1:** If I wanna say I really need to sit down. I think I'm a little bit more on the kind of spontaneity edge, so it's more kind of just getting that ticket and and getting over there really. And anything that kinda crops up along the way is good for me. That is beautiful. Yeah. That is real flow mad stuff.

**Speaker 0:** I'm in Asia. It's quite uncharted for daygame. Obviously, go there for other reasons when they're in their fifties and really fat and they just wanna go to a hook a bar or something. For actual day game, a guy actually in India recently emailed me and said he's a hardcore daygamer in Mumbai. If you're listening to this, shout out to you. And he's getting great results in shopping malls in India, that's unexplored as well. Hong Kong, places like that.

**Speaker 1:** Are you planning on Australia and New Zealand? Yeah. I'd like to hit them as well. I think the only trouble with them is it's a little bit more expensive.

**Speaker 0:** Yeah. Yeah. Like, it's funny. Guys always see the advertising for Australia. They're like, yes. That's the gap year Australia. And they don't realize, like, I didn't realize that it's probably more expensive than London. Mhmm. It's nuts, Sydney, for a coffee or a beer or a hostel. So yeah, man, we it's just restrictive, isn't it? And South America and Asia is or Eastern Europe, that's the place to be. Yeah. Definitely. Alright. Well, we'll kind of wrap it up. I think we're coming to half an hour. Look at that twenty nine minutes. That is beautiful. Cheers, George. I hope this is the start of many podcasts we do, vlogs we do, hopefully a bit of traveling. Thanks, Tom. Yeah. Cheers for giving me the opportunity. No worries, man. And in classic sales speak, I'm gonna end on an upsell as you should, as marketers nag me to do. The only upsell in this podcast is that there's two places available on my last boot camp in London for a while, which is gonna be on the twenty eighth, on the March 29 with me teaching. Two places left on that. If you're interested, give me an email, tom@tomterrero.com. After March, I'm giving up my room, I think, here or certainly end of mid April and then I'm off a bit like you. So last chance for London boot camp. There you go. That was podcast number 15 over and out.