---
title: Episode 168 Pickup Is Punk
episode_number: 168
era: late
source_file: Episode 168 Pickup Is Punk.mp3
audio_size_mb: 54.2
duration_sec: 1776.7
duration_min: 29.6
language: en
provider: deepgram
model: nova-3
diarized: true
confidence: 0.995
transcribed_at: 2026-05-27T17:06:59Z---

# Episode 168 Pickup Is Punk

**Speaker 0:** In bed with Tom Torero podcast a hundred and sixty eight pickup is punk now I know I have a very sexy baritone voice today I sound like Richard Burton in under milkwood or, Anthony Hopkins in Silence of the Lambs. So, yes, on one level, I wish I could keep this voice forever, but on another level, I wish I could feel better. I am paying the price for driving around The UK and going over to Ireland and drinking every evening with British and Irish and international daygamers. That was the mistake to have these meetups in a pub consecutively. And the biggest mistake was to start in Dublin last Saturday evening. You can't be in Ireland, you can't be in Dublin, you can't be there on a Saturday night and not drink. And I said to the lads, I can only have a couple, know, tomorrow I'm back to Manchester. No, you won't. Get this down inside you now. Go on now. It's good for you. And they lined up the Guinness and, I missed my flight. The next day, I had to get a later flight. I, what do you say? I jumped on a grenade. I dived on a grenade. I took one for the team. I winged a guy and yeah. Let's say she wasn't the most beautiful girl, maybe a minus one if you count your notches. That would be a minus one and, that was until about 6AM. So I started the tour on the wrong foot. I was too confident in my drinking abilities, but thank you very much to the 100, maybe a 120 guys who came to one of the cities to say hello, to buy a book, just to offer me a beer, just to just to have a chat. It was very interesting and I shall tell you my findings from, driving around The UK in a van, talking about daygame, doing daygame. And I'll also talk today about why pickup is punk and the two are related. Don't you worry. It won't be too abstract. But I've scribbled down some notes from each city just to say thank you to some people and to remind myself of some of the colorful characters I met. First of all, in Dublin, as I said last Saturday, it was about 30 guys upstairs in a pub, not just a train O'Neill's, but it turned out to be one of the original kind of a 100 year old O'Neill's with glorious Guinness. And obviously, they were they were lads from Ireland. There a guy had driven down from Northern Ireland. There were two brothers from Saudi Arabia. There were Brazilians. There was a guy from Venezuela. There was a guy from Cyprus. There was a very friendly security guard. Now bear that in mind when we talk about Edinburgh. But this security guard, first of all, he wanted to know what was going on because there were so many lads upstairs and someone said, oh, it's, it's creepy Tom Torero. No, they said it's Tom Torero and he's signing some books and the security guard came over to me, this is fantastic, you know, I really liked that guys are taking action, this is fantastic. I married but I would buy a book, this is great. So he was very encouraging and that was the theme of Dublin. Very positive. I don't know how many actual daygamers. There are a lot of the guys that came seem to be doing it at night or they were just interested in it. They didn't really know much daygame theory, but they were very willing. They were, very hospitable and I made it back to Manchester somehow the next day for a meet up that evening. I parked the van by the old hacienda half thinking that I'd come back and it would be on bricks, you know. And that evening, I was feeling like shite, but I drank through. I think I had two beers for the hair of the dog and around 15, maybe 20 guys came to that meetup. A guy had driven over from Leeds. I still owe you stealth seduction, sir, for bringing me that beer. You know who you are, so if you can email me, I will send you stealth seduction. I met Wade, an urban legend, a guy called Wade from Blackpool. And I think it was five years in the making, but I finally met you, Wade. So that was good. There was a guy from Huddersfield, a concert pianist. There were some Italians. There were obviously some mank lads. There was big Phil who took me out for a bit of gutter game, down by the old Granada Studios. And we got two girls into a chip shop. Classy Manchester, proper classy, but we couldn't get them back to the van. But cheers to big Phil for the big love. There was a an inspirational guy in his early fifties and this is a theme of the tour really, guys coming along in their forties and fifties who are well put together, who are doing daygame, not as providers or sugar daddies. And yeah, this guy in his early fifties was, nailing a girl in Oxford University, much, much, much younger than him. So he was very interesting to talk to. That was Manchester. Then the following day up to Edinburgh in beautiful crisp autumnal sunshine past the Yorkshire Dales and the Lake District. And then it gets really beautiful above Penrith as you turn off right to Edinburgh. And 20 guys ish came along to the meeting point to this bar and very quickly you could see that the whatever he was, the duty manager, the barman, he wasn't happy. He wanted to know why there were so many guys with identical leather jackets and he came over and I think someone accidentally said again, oh it's Tom Torero, it's a book signing and he went away, he googled it and then he beckoned me over with a wagging finger, a beckoning finger and he said, he said for me to get out, that he knew what this was. He had googled me, that it was something political and offensive and we had to leave. So we all downed our beers and left and went to a kind of a weatherspoons venue where Merrymont was had, where it was all fine. But cheers to Cash for showing massive hospitality, a big supporter, a big daygamer himself and the Cuban cigar that he gave me that was much appreciated. Cheers to Adi representing Glasgow and Zander. Zander, you might remember from my travels in Cape Town, South Africa. He hosted me in Cape Town and I hadn't seen him for years. So him and Adi and some other guys from Glasgow, they were there. And it once again reminded me why you shouldn't mess with Glaswegians. There was a guy in his maybe late forties, early fifties who wheeled in this suitcase. And he opened the suitcase and it was full of all the books I've ever written. What a madman. So I signed them all and I was very grateful and then he left. So thank you if that was you. There was a guy originally from Bristol. He hadn't come from Bristol, but it was interesting to talk to a Bristolian. There was a guy from Sterling. There was a free spirit from the West Coast Of The USA. He was a a traveler and a digital nomad. He was he was very good, a bit of a natural. There was another natural guy dressed like someone in lock stock and two smoking barrels, kind of a pimp coat. He was from Malaga in Spain, but he had a very good vibe. There were a couple of writers who would come to shame me about my prose but they were very helpful. There was a guy I spoke to about depression and anxiety, a very interesting man and there was Oz, the wizard of Oz, the legend Oz from the documentary Hustle On. I hadn't seen him since last summer and he told me about his new naughty hobbies. So thank you to Edinburgh. Then it was Birmingham. On my way home, on my way back to Wales, 20 guys came once again and this time we'd gotten wise. So rather than making it look like a book signing, one of the, one of the guys in his forties, a very well put together guy had the brainwave of telling people who were asking, you know, what is this? He told them that I was a professional hot tub instilator. So I was signing books about hot tubs and that seemed to do the trick. They left us alone and, thank you to the warmness of the two guys I was talking about boxing with. One of them was an ex wrestler and they came in and to look at the van. They were two legendary guys who knew a lot about daygame and not just knew a lot about daygame. One of them in particular really knew what he was talking about because he had done it. So bear that theme in mind when we talk about pickup is punk. There was a guy from Portugal, was a guy from Norway, I've written down there was a guy from Romania and there were guys once again in their forties and fifties who were well put together and picking up girls using charisma and charm and day game skills. So I used to think the ceiling for day game, originally, I thought it was 40. Recently, I've been thinking, it's probably late forties, maybe 50, But meeting these guys in their fifties and a 59 year old, I shall tell you about in London, it really makes you think. It really makes you think and makes you grateful that male sexual market value can be sustained. And then it was Cardiff, the green green grass of home and I really had no idea how many Welsh daygamers there are because even though I come from just outside Cardiff, I've not really done many approaches in Cardiff in total, even though there is one on stealth seduction. But 10, maybe 15 guys came along in total. Some of them were from Swansea. We'll let you off. That's fine. There was no violence that evening. But it was very nice to have four guys from Swansea. There were four guys from Bristol. So there's certainly daygame going on in Bristol. One of them Slovak, interestingly. So ahoy. There was a very fascinating guy, perhaps in his forties. Forgive me if you're in your thirties and I've offended you. I think you're in your forties. You are a diving instructor or you instruct instructors. He was a Portuguese guy. Very, very interesting life. There were Cardiff lads. Thank fuck for that. There are some actual Cardiff daygamers. One was a Spanish student studying in Cardiff University, but I'll let you off. And then later on a natural lad came, just a very, very good vibe, very chilled out guy, works online, really didn't know much about pickup, but you could see he had picked up a lot of girls. So hello to you, the Welsh speaker from Dinner's Palace. And then the following day, I took the train here ready to fly onto Russia. Did a meet up in London. There were 20, maybe 25 guys. There were some Russians interestingly or a guy that I had met in Estonia. I think he's half Russian. It was nice to see him again. There was a Greek gentleman in his forties, well put together. There was the 59 year old I told you about who says he's still dating tasty young ladies. There was Charlie from the beginner's guide to daygame video. The legend that is Charlie that is doing extremely well. He's come back from Poland. There is the studious daygamer, Thomas. He came along with some naturals, again, like the guy from Dennis Powers. There were a couple of guys that didn't really know what daygamer pickup was but somehow they had heard about it and you could see they were oozing good vibes. They were oozing charisma. So a lot to be learned. And you say, well, how are these guys naturals? And as I've said before, it's just early reference experiences. Yet they might have some personality traits that are genetic, that are learned early on. They were stars at school, sports stars, whatever. But you could see these guys were getting laid a lot and, yes, learning through osmosis, picking up on their vibe is interesting. There were some guys that I had taught. There was a French chap, an Italian chap, so hello to them. There was mister j, I think it's mister j or mister l, a mountaineer who had written a lay report for me in the past, but he was very interesting to talk to. There was Troy Francis. I was in London with Troy Francis not only swaddling around Soho, going to Bruno and eating some curry, but Troy came along. So there we have it. I'm rammed in now and I don't want take the whole podcast to talk about the tour, but thank you very much for all the Guinness that has destroyed me, for the cigars, for the, offers of hospitality and showers and spare rooms and all that. So day games definitely in a healthy state. The conclusions that I've scribbled down, these are my UKIreland conclusions. Okay. So I said a 100, a 120 guys came along, but how many of them are actually doing day game regularly in their city? It was hard to tell. But there's certainly lots of guys interested. There's more guys doing night. There are a lot of guys that were interested in nighttime pickup and for the guys who hadn't tried daygame and I asked them why haven't you tried it? Approach anxiety is obviously and will always be a huge issue and if you've done daygame for a long time, you underestimate it. You forget what a big thing approach anxiety is or was right at the beginning. And you get desensitized to it and you kind of forget about it and then it becomes approach apathy, which is what I have now where you can get get rid of the a a after an approach or two. For those guys that really have never tried daygame, you forget what a big thing it is. So help another brother out by taking him out, having a wing, kicking you, competing, whatever. Help a brother out if he needs some initial kick up the ass coaching. It's not even coaching. It's approach coaching. Throw them in. Throw them into the lions. Reminds me of Monty Python, Life of Brian. And the second issue when you talk to guys and he says, yeah, I've done a bit of daygame. I've done 50 approaches, a 100, a 150 approaches. Is that, can you guess what the second sticking point is after approach anxiety? It's the nice guy. So a lot of these guys could make very polite chitchat. They were very warm and friendly, perhaps too warm and friendly. And I said to a lot of them, you know, learn the attraction, learn the spikes, get an edge because you're coming across too much as a nice guy. And that's a sticking point that takes far longer. Okay? But, that sums up where people are in terms of dabblers. Don't worry, your city is not flooded. So perhaps in each of those cities there was five guys that did daygame religiously a lot, obviously in London, London more, but your city is not flooded. That's all in your head just cause a lot of people listen to this podcast or watch the videos, they're voyeurs, they're not doing it. So your city is not burnt. And in every city, this will make you chuckle. In every city, the Irish guys would come up and say, Tom, just to let you know, Irish girls are the hardest. It's impossible. And then the Scottish guys would say, ah, you can't talk to Scottish girls. It's absolutely impossible. And the guys in Manchester said the same thing in Birmingham. It's impossible to approach girls from Birmingham. And I argued my point in each city. You know, that is in your head. Yeah. You might have had some scary experiences with them in the past. Yeah. They might be initially more prickly because they're scanning your value like a barcode. But it's good. It raises your game. Come on, fight on home turf. And it's certainly possible. I did daygame in a lot of the cities on tour and it's certainly possible. The next conclusion, which links with pickup is punk. I promise you I'll talk about why pickup is punk, is that guys that were coming up to me asking me questions were all asking me macro questions, on meta things. So guys are really into talking about congruency or self actualization or the power of now or a lot of guys were talking to me about gym and lifting and clean living, you know, but when I drilled down and said, do you know, okay, you know, self development is cool, but do you know anything about pickup? As in pickup theory, pickup basics. What is attraction or do you know what qualification is or have you got any idea about verbally escalating or physically escalating or do you know what you're doing with texting? Really lacking. Really lacking. So they can't see the wood for the trees because perhaps the internet is flooded now with these meta kind of things. So I said to a lot of guys, get right back to the basics. Get right back to the early days of pickup where it's just about techniques to get laid. Okay? You've you've lost the way and and the conclusion definitely from meeting all these guys is that self help is far more popular than pickup. And once again, there's nothing wrong with self help, but I see them as two different things. Below the belt as in dirty pickup is gonna make you dirtier. Your self help's gonna suffer. So I was on tour to talk about daygame, to talk about pickup. What is pickup? It's picking up girls for casual sex. It's not about monogamy. It's not about clean living. So you're getting the idea of today's pickup podcast, why it's, punk, why it's it's certainly not clean living. And sad in a way that 18 year olds were coming up to me and they were they had everything sorted in terms of, health and fitness and meditation, but they were absolutely clueless when it came to going out there, getting their hands dirty, getting grubby and doing actually doing pickup, shock horror, talking to girls and, yeah, relaxing a little bit. Said to some of the guys, you're in your twenties, you know, now's the time to socialize. Now's the time to backpack and travel and get your hands dirty and get other things dirty. And later on when you've ticked that off your list, you know, good with girls, sure. Focus on health and focus on wealth and focus on meditation. But a lot of guys were asking me about philosophy and politics. There were many, many guys asking about politics and I just said, no, next question. No, next question. And it's ironic that I get asked political questions from both sides of the spectrum if you like. My hate mail, my junk mail, consists of enemy fire from both the right, you could say, and the left in whatever spectrum you follow. Yeah. Both sides don't like pickup artists having casual sex. They see it as a damaged or degenerate or creepy or whatever, destruction of the fabric of today's society. Yeah. So you can't win. So that's why, just like a shit test, you don't engage. You either agree and amplify or no comment, the right to remain silent. Alright. Finally, let's tie it all together. What a rambling podcast. Pickup is punk and a long time ago, I wrote a little bit on my blog about it, so I shall just read off that to refresh my memory, refresh your memory. I said, pickup artist are by definition, outsiders. They're rebels against societal norms. Naughty boys who upset the apple cart, drifters, cats, black sheeps who don't play by the rules. So it always makes me chuckle when I see attempts to sanitize pickup with clean living. That's like pretending that ACDC got together for self development rather than sex, drugs, and rock and roll. Pickup is punk. It's subversive and raw, not saintly and regulated. If you're into daygame and pickup, then you're trying to or thinking about trying to seduce hot girls. There's no need to sugarcoat it or water it down with religious doctrine or lofty moralizing. Own it. Don't apologize for it. That in itself is liberating. I call it street hustling as we're attempting to get these hot girls without conforming to societal rules of romantic dating, status climbing, and traditional marriage. That's why those who do follow the rules become upset with pickup artists for getting a free lunch. Hence, getting kicked out of the pub in Edinburgh. And then I concluded it, don't argue or get defensive, as I do with guys who talk about politics. Simply smirk or agree and amplify. Yes, I'm a very bad boy. Yes, I'm very naughty indeed and yes, seducing beautiful women is sinful and shallow. A good spanking is necessary. So this is not really a men's self help club, although I know a lot of guys get into pickup for that kind of male community aspect. Pickup is not really for the good of society if you drill down to what it actually is. It's about having a lot of casual sex and what I loved about old school PUA was that it was punk, it was grimy, it was about getting laid And talking to a lot of guys on this British and Irish tour, getting laid was perhaps one of the furthest things from their minds right now, know. They really wanted to just talk about philosophy as I said or politics or no fap or no drinking or just the perfect diet or lifting or making money and I was the one that had to say but how's your how's the sex life you know how's the casual sex He'd be like, oh no, I'm in a relationship. I'm very happy in my relationship. I just came along to discuss politics. You're like, well, let's get back to old school pickup, which is down and dirty getting laid. And as the new book is about and as I warned guys on tour, just because you can then do pickup and you get good at pickup and you work out how to get laid more, it doesn't mean you're going to be happy ever after. So again, pickup doesn't really equate with a lot of self development. It does in terms of getting over shyness and embracing discomfort and talking to girls and getting laid, but at the cost to other things, which is what the new book is all about. So yes, outlaws, pirates, renegades, delinquents, call them what you want, but it's all subversive to that traditional thing, you know, the society thing of monogamy, 2.4 children. And it's opposite, it should be the opposite of of square, of geeky, of respectable. Yeah? It's, this is not decaffeinated coffee. This is not non alcoholic beer. Doing pickup means you're a bit of a naughty boy. And I would say watch fight club again. And fight club has obviously so many parallels to, daygame and pickup. But the early part of fight club when fighting is going on and it's all very underground and renegade, that's the old school PUA community. And then you forget with fight club the ending and later on when they're kind of, robotic clones and it becomes political and it becomes about something else, it loses the essence of Fight Club. So I'm nagging you with this podcast and saying pickup is punk to get back to the basics, get back to going out with a wing, get back to approaching, get off blogs and forums and moaning and maybe put self help on the back burner and let your change in mindset come from a change of action. I always say action first. The mindsets will shift later. Get back to getting laid. Shock horror in 2018. You can go out and you can chat up girls with friction. I said to many guys, flirtation is friction. Forget the clean living nice guy thing. Friction means you gotta break a few eggs to make the omelet, teasing, challenging, spiking. Learn all that old school stuff. It's really, really good. And a big step, as I say in the conclusion of my new book, a big step for a lot of guys and I got them to say it to me in the meetups is to admit why you're doing pickup and guys have a really hard time saying, I like casual sex. I don't want to settle down or I don't want to settle down yet. It's okay to like younger, hotter girls. Yep. So the game is played in field. Stick to that old school concept, that pickup used to be about where you have to test your ideas. They say you don't really have a right to an opinion unless you've gone out and you feel tested it, what, three times or five times or 10 times. You certainly can't write about it until you've gone out into the real world and you've got your hands nice and dirty. It's a contact sport, remember. You're not a spectator. And that was the whole point of the tour. To, shift guys interests in this from hypothetical to real, real world. So dragging guys onto the street and seeing them do their first approach. That was the best stuff. And I said to many guys, don't blame other people, stop blaming the government, stop blaming your family, stop blaming your past, stop blaming women. That was a big one. Or, whatever your opposing political views but lots of guys blamed women for their failure with women. I said, take back control. Listen to that podcast I did on how I found freedom in an unfree world, Harry Brown. And I quote, you know, you're the problem, you're the solution. That's a much healthier mindset to have. If you go out today and you think, I am the problem. So when a girl blows you out rather than blowing you or when, she's just fizzles out over text or on the date she doesn't come back to yours, rather than getting really angry with her or the state of the world or the state of politics or religion or whatever and having a big old moaning rant which does nothing for your vibe or anyone else's vibe. Look in the mirror and take responsibility. You say, I fucked up I am the problem but that's the great thing if you're the problem you're the solution because you can take steps to fix it and with a lot of guys we had the discussion about shortening the feedback loop shortening the feedback time so rather than going out and just saying it's either getting laid or a failure you work on these daygame set pieces so for beginners it's just look can you even go and say excuse me, do know where the train station is? And then you push it one level. So I said to another guy, try saying, excuse me, do you know where a really good coffee shop is? And don't say Starbucks. Yeah? And then the next level, excuse me, I love your love your bag. Have a nice day. You know, without sounding too metrosexual. Or just doing five hit and runs. Excuse me, you look very nice. Have a great day. Excuse me, you look really beautiful. Have a great day. Does she smile? It's a success. Did she look creeped out? That was your fault. You are the problem. You are the solution. So can you stop girls? Can you compliment girls? Can you get girls to hook? Can you get girls to invest? Do you know what qualification is? You know, hint hint, learn some old school pickup. Can you get girls contact details? Can you get girls out? Can you get the kiss? Can you get girls back into your apartment? And then can you get laid? This is what I mean by shortening your feedback loops. And it was always one of my tricks to to take these micro successes. Don't preoccupy yourself with the macro. Alright? That's when it becomes all preachy and moralizing and you get caught up, you know, your head up your own ass, you get lost in your forebrain. Take it back to the hindbrain. That's what I mean. Pickup is punk. Feeding, fighting, what is it? Foraging, fighting, fucking. That's all very primal. We had a good chat to the boxing guys in Birmingham about that. In Birmingham? Especially because one of them was a wrestler. And I'm trying to get those two lads, if they keep their promise, if they're listening, to come on a podcast and talk about analogies between their fighting knowledge and pickup. Alright. Enough waffling. Did I bring it all together? Did that make sense? I hope so. So half of the podcast was to say thank you and the second half of the podcasters was to really nag you based on what I had learned on this tour. Next week's podcast shall be, thank fuck, from Mother Russia. So, I'm ready. I'm ready to face the cold, both the literal cold and, the frostiness of some of these hotties. That's the price you pay for, in my opinion, the hottest girls in the world. Thank you for listening. Thank you for coming. Long may you come. I shall speak to you next week. Goodbye.