---
title: Episode 180 Daygame Diagnosis (Dont Freestyle)
episode_number: 180
era: late
source_file: Episode 180 Daygame Diagnosis (Dont Freestyle).mp3
audio_size_mb: 54.7
duration_sec: 1791.6
duration_min: 29.9
language: en
provider: deepgram
model: nova-3
diarized: true
confidence: 0.993
transcribed_at: 2026-05-27T17:09:23Z---

# Episode 180 Daygame Diagnosis (Dont Freestyle)

**Speaker 0:** Thomas Torero podcast episode number a 180, the second of the daygame diagnosis podcasts. This one is called don't freestyle. If you haven't listened to the first one, which was last week where I break down a listener's m p three recording of him in field, then go back because that contained a lot of useful stuff if you are starting out. Anyway, welcome to this degenerate daygame podcast. I think this podcast has been going now for about five years. So perhaps this is the world's most consistent, the world's longest running pickup podcast. That makes me a dirty old, underline the word, old bastard. And I guess you're pretty old if you've listened to it now from the beginning. You poor bastards. Welcome. Whether it's the morning, the afternoon, the evening, whether you're sneakily listening to this at work, whether you're pumping iron at the gym, or whether you're doing the washing up like a good husband. Welcome one and all. Before we dive into today's infield, thank you to mister m who has sent me today's infield. Not an armchair keyboard pick up artist, but a guy that actually goes out there and does it. So thank you for being brave and sending me your recording. Some announcements. The first announcement is to say cheers. Thank you to the many of you who have bought the dirty tricks new seminar which is available from the link below. It's a four hour, almost four and a half hour seminar I gave in December. It's just out of game. So it's practical. It's actionable. It's the tricks, the tips, the techniques, a 100 new things to add on to the videos already on my YouTube and the contents of my book Street Hustle. So it's brand new. It's called dirty tricks and it's available to buy. End of plugging. I promise. I have finished my day game for the month. Can you believe that? It's just gone the middle of the month and I can say, job done. I had a crazy immersive period of daygame in Russia for the January filming for the documentary coming out at the end of the year and now I have earned myself a sunshine break. I'm going to Cyprus in a few days time to get some sunshine. After the Russian bitterness, the lowest it got to was minus 14 degrees centigrade. Typical daily temperatures were around minus eight degrees centigrade. So I was in shopping centers, Starbucks, supermarkets, subways. The camera gear could not survive infield filming outdoors and neither could my bollocks or my brain. But there you go. Lots of filling of the daygame funnel, lots of number farming, lots of juicy stuff. So a good way to kick off. I hope your January daygame, I hope your resolutions have turned into fruitful action. Enough nagging. Right. Onto the podcast. Second one, daygame diagnosis. Don't freestyle. It's called don't freestyle. Oh, does somebody love me? Yes, they do. There we go. One of the Russian leads. Yeah, I was amazed at how popular the breakdown of last week's m p three was. I forgot, I've been analyzing students in field since about 2011 and I've been saying the same thing week in week out. I've heard I think every single sticking point there is for day game. I take it for granted that there are guys out there who need the basics, need basic reminders, and the guys find this stuff interesting. When we used to do it, boot camps week in week out in the daygame house in Marble Arch, we'd watch the guys videos, listen to their infields and we'd find ourselves saying the same thing every week. So it was like a bit of an in joke, know, we'd look at each other when the same sticking point arose between instructors but I assume too much, I think. Oh, I know. Very nice. Very nice. That's pinging. Yeah. I assume people know things when perhaps they don't. I assume that all of you know the basics of the daygame model or basic sticking points and perhaps you don't. So on to today's infield from mister m. He's a British guy talking to a British girl. But daygame doesn't work on British girls. Well, she's a nice, flirty, chatty lass. And interestingly, mister m is 52 years old. So middle finger to all you guys that say, daygame doesn't work after the age of 30. Or some guy saying, I'm 40 and I'm retiring from the game. I'm too old. Well, mister m is 52 and he's still playing the game. He's actually quite new to the game. He's been doing it for about half a year. 600 approaches, so fair play. He's bang on target for the amount he should be doing. A lot of numbers he says, but a huge flake rate when it comes to numbers to dates. So getting them out on dates. And he self diagnosis quite correctly. In his email, said he wondered if if his problem was over vibing, being stuck in the attraction phase. Well, kind of. Mister m certainly doesn't have a problem going up to girls and chatting and throwing in a few spikes and being a bit naughty, but it's getting him into some sticky situations. And no, not sexually sticky situations all the time. So we'll just cut into me analyzing, analysing the infield. Forgive me mister m. I'm not having a go at you. I promise. But tough love once again. It's useful for the listeners. And at the end of the podcast, I'll come back and say some closing words. Okay, mister m. Here we go.

**Speaker 1:** Sorry. Sorry I'm late. Bloody traffic was hell. Oh.

**Speaker 0:** Okay. This is why this set is interesting. It's not a direct opener. It's not an indirect opener, as in excuse me. Where is the train station. This is an indirect direct opener, which is the hardest type, but potentially the the smoothest, most intelligent type of daygame to do. So it's a funny opener. I enjoy it. But does she understand what the hell is going on? Let's see.

**Speaker 1:** These Tinder dates are nightmare, aren't they?

**Speaker 0:** Very British humor, like Alan Partridge or Ricky Gervais. I find it funny, but does a girl know what you want as in don't hide your dick?

**Speaker 2:** Wait. I'm so confused.

**Speaker 3:** I'm so confused. You are my tender then. Okay.

**Speaker 0:** So there's the answer. She says, I'm so confused. So do I recommend indirect direct daygame? Not really, especially if you don't get results with it as mister m was saying. So I'd go back to the daygame model. Open direct, stack as normal. This is great for situations where daygame might not be calibrated. So I still do it on airplanes or on buses or if the moment appears like on a ski lift or something. But the bread and butter of daygame should be, keep it simple. This is this involves a lot of free styling hard work as well. Now, as well as the confusion,

**Speaker 1:** did you hear the laugh? Let's see. You are my tender date. Am I? Are you? No.

**Speaker 2:** I'm getting to a gig.

**Speaker 4:** I was just on it directly. I was just on it.

**Speaker 0:** That's a brilliant laugh. That's a genuine belly cackle laugh. I love it. But like we said last week, in the first daygame diagnosis, if you haven't listened to that again, go back. Don't laugh. A daygamer, a seducer, a guy in general should never be laughing at his own jokes. We're not trying to be funny we're trying to seduce. One you are. Oh my god.

**Speaker 4:** Oh, I was like, oh god, what we've done now, we've done a good

**Speaker 1:** That's so funny. Again, honestly. Okay.

**Speaker 0:** So there's this awkward kind of pause where nobody's doing the work. She's being very British and filling in the silences. You have to do some work here, mister m. Like I said last week, as soon as you open and you say that you like her, you have to then display your personality. You can't just stand there unless you really are a male model. But even then, you need to back it up. So this is why in the daygame model, there's the the stacking and the vibing where you can display something more than your looks. Let's see if you do any work. Honestly.

**Speaker 2:** Oh, no. I'm just waiting for some friends. We're going to a gig at heaven. Are you? Yeah. Heaven. Okay. So she has given you some information

**Speaker 0:** magically. She's going to a gig in heaven. Now what wonderful vibing you could do off that. I do know the club heaven. Do you know that it's a gay bar? I think a gay club made famous by Madonna. I'm I think I'm thinking of the right one. It's under the arches down by Charing Cross. Is that right? Or it's somewhere in Soho. Anyway, she says she's going to heaven. So cue the teases, cue your story. Remember from last week, this is the point where you you got the topic, so you go into vibing, you tell a story. It's a gig, so there's material there, but there shouldn't be silence. Hopefully, there are no questions.

**Speaker 1:** Heaven, where is that? Literally just there. Is it? Yeah. Oh, you're early.

**Speaker 0:** So you missed the topic. If I was teaching you in field, I would say, yeah. She gave you the ball. Imagine it's football, and you just passed it back. Like, meh, I don't wanna do any work. You do the work. This creates an awkwardness where the girl feels like, oh, this is weird. I wanna get away. It's like when a street a hustler comes up to you, a Harry Krishna guy, and just gets you wants you to do something, and you're just like, no. So awkward so far. You're early. Well, we're all gonna go out, I think. We're gonna Yeah. Go out, see what's going on. You're keen. Yeah. We've got into chitchat because she's she's very polite and British. She's doing the work for you. But the thing about you taking control of the first two minutes is that you steer it away from chitchat because a girl will naturally take it to boring topics like she's waiting for her friends, it's cold, she's hungry, politics, religion, etcetera. It's the seducer's job to immediately switch it into the gear that you want which is accusational, teasing and challenging through storytelling.

**Speaker 2:** So I can't hear you speaking at all really, mister m. Yeah. And then we wanna get there for, like, Barry's, like, doors are six. Yeah. So we'll get there about six. See what's going on then. Yeah.

**Speaker 5:** Is it heavy metal? Punk rock. Questions. Questions. Questions. Questions. And

**Speaker 0:** some guys listening will say, well, sounds like she's hooked. She's investing. She's talking. No. This is just social. This is just polite. You find this a lot in American, Canadian, Australian daygame as well. A girl will start chatting to you, but she hasn't hooked as in she's not interested in you. And does this girl actually know what you want? I would probably say no. You're just a chatty, friendly, which is the worst thing, stranger.

**Speaker 2:** Is it heavy metal? Punk rock? No. It's like indie. It's this band, Night Cafe. Nights? Night Cafe. Cafe. The Night Cafe. So it's I can't quite read that. No. It's quite difficult to read. So it's like itchy sort of Just looking at your boobs really. I

**Speaker 0:** think you said, I'm just looking at your boobs. You might have said, I'm just looking at your boobs. But fair play. But it's uncalibrated, I would say. It's it's come out of nowhere. It's that's not smooth escalation. That's what they used to call mode one, super direct. Like, what the fuck? It feels good and you might get a laugh, but I wouldn't do it. It's not smooth, and she hasn't hooked. So do things in the right order. You're freestyling. And would you say to a beginner surfer or a beginner snowboarder, just, you know, be yourself, freestyle? No. I would go back, like I said last week, to the basic structure. And after a couple of years, I enjoy freestyling sometimes. But even today, when I was out daygaming, I open and I stag and I vibe and I get the hook point.

**Speaker 1:** There's a bit of freestyling but not much. So, yeah, it's like indie sort of Oh, is it? Okay. Sort of music. Yeah. Not really my cup of tea. Alright. What do want me Some more smooth jazz, you know. What

**Speaker 0:** was that show? British people will know this. The Fast Show. Smooth jazz. I like the way you challenged her. Okay. So this might create some attraction. Let's see. Jazz, you know. Oh, nice. Keyboard, saxophone.

**Speaker 2:** I used to play saxophone. Did you? Yeah. Well, like, ages ago. Oh, I like you now.

**Speaker 4:** Oh, yeah. That's good.

**Speaker 0:** That's good. Push pull. I like you now. But you combined it with the laughter and you're a bit keen. Really? Did you play sax? Wow. So it's rapport rapport rapport. Things done in the wrong order here. We're getting comfort first and then we had a bit of seduction with the boobs and now a bit of attraction.

**Speaker 2:** Let's carry on. That's good. Yeah. And I played it when I was like 10, 11. Much younger. Yeah. But Yeah. Yeah. I

**Speaker 1:** like your hair. Thank you. It's very bright. Thought I could come out and say hello. Oh, that's nice. Okay.

**Speaker 0:** Forgive this background noise. Someone's having a shower next door. Okay. In the wrong order, you've opened now. You said she looks nice. You like her hair, and she's finally like, oh, this is what's happening. And you're you're almost two minutes into this interaction.

**Speaker 1:** Let's see what happens. Hello. Oh, that's nice. You look like a a bottle of of pop

**Speaker 0:** Yeah. Upside down. Yeah. Yeah. I do. Okay. There's your observational stack. You look like a can of pop, which is a fizzy drink for you yanks turned upside down. That's good, but again, it's pretty abstract. You're freestyling when you don't need to. You could just say, look, I love your hair. You look so happy, you know. I love your hair. You look very relaxed. I love your hair. You don't look British. Keep it super simple. You're making daygame very, very hard for yourself. I do. People sell it like candy floss, but you know Candy floss. That was the word I was looking for. Okay. Yeah. You've got the topic. She gave it to you. People say I look like candy my hair looks like candy floss. She said, so the daygame model, you've done opening, you've done the stack, now you got the topic so you got a vibe. The topic is candy floss and the fairground rides three, two, one, go. That's when you tell the story. Yeah. Yep. So you missed it. So you'd come back to me after the session and I'd say, you missed the topic. So in your bedroom now, shut your eyes wherever you are and think of candy floss and all those fun, funny, witty, sarcastic quips and stories you have about being a child at the fun fair and fairground rides and Coney Island for you yanks, etcetera, etcetera.

**Speaker 1:** You need a story. Hi. I'm Mark. What's your name?

**Speaker 2:** Yeah. Nice to meet you. Yeah. What are doing tonight? You just Chilling up you, but, you know

**Speaker 0:** Fair enough. Are you Pretty good. I think that was a hook just because you've stayed in there and you've been polite and witty. She asked you what are you doing tonight? And I liked your don't hide your dick response. Thank god for that. The shower stopped. But this laughing has to stop. This laughing is killing any

**Speaker 2:** seduction or sexual tension. What are you going out for?

**Speaker 1:** I'm going I I'm going to wander around Trafalgar Square, Leicester Square, and I'm I'm gonna come back down Vadier Street. And where am I going afterwards? I was gonna go to the National Gallery, but I'm probably a bit late now. I think they're close at six. Yeah. I've been there. Yeah. This

**Speaker 0:** is chatting on the bus territory. And again, it's too early for comfort even though we could say she's hooked. You're saying about, you know, opening and closing times and your route and a girl will go along with this. That's the frustrating thing. If you start going into comfort quicksand, she'll join you. So you can talk about routes and streets and times and paintings, but this is taking you further and further away from p and v. Oh, I've been there. Yeah. I I clicked kind of early.

**Speaker 1:** I was trying to get in at ten to six. Yeah. They give me a mean stare. Oh,

**Speaker 4:** dad.

**Speaker 0:** Who should the spotlight be on in a day game conversation for 90% of the time? You or her? And the answer is her. So keep the spotlight off you. Sure. I say, my name is Tom. I used to be a teacher. I'm from Wales. Anyway, back to you. What about this gig? Candy floss head. Back to her. This is awkward now and a calibrated daygamer would cut and run. She's trying to get away. She's being polite. Girls are very polite. But you've not displayed enough value for her to want you to stay and carry on. So we haven't really got a hook point. Are you from London? Yeah. But I'm studying

**Speaker 2:** in

**Speaker 1:** Oh, okay. Uni

**Speaker 2:** Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well.

**Speaker 1:** It is it is uni, isn't it?

**Speaker 2:** I'm not that uni. Different. So I've got uni next year. Oh. So a bit younger.

**Speaker 1:** Oh my god. But yeah. I thought you were 18?

**Speaker 2:** No. 17. Oh god. Yes.

**Speaker 0:** Fair play, mister m. And don't panic, American listeners. In The UK, it's 16. That's the legal age for chatting up birds. Yes.

**Speaker 1:** I draw a line at 18. Yeah. I would say. Yeah. I come and meet you in a year slime. There we go.

**Speaker 0:** Definitely. But somehow it's It's awkward now, and the laughing's really awkward. I would have cut a long time ago. Inappropriate.

**Speaker 1:** Yeah. You know, I'm a little old as you, you know.

**Speaker 0:** You're giving her reasons to not want to continue. I wouldn't do that. It's like talking a lot about boyfriends or health problems.

**Speaker 4:** I

**Speaker 2:** would say we should have a drink. Yeah. I mean, I've got drink for me, but You have? Eat vodka. Vodka and Coke. I've got it in there. Have you? Got it in that one instead.

**Speaker 0:** Okay. Now this is a bit juicy and she's a young bird. So exactly, you should be talking about getting pissed, naughty things, dirty things. These kind of girls actually, the 18 to 21 year old girls, in this case 17, they're easier to daygame. They're easier to tease and challenge and flirt with because they're ditzy. This is where their mind is. So talking about the secret booze and I presume she's got some kind of water bottle. Now we're starting to slightly heat things up. Put it in that one instead.

**Speaker 4:** I like you. That's what that much of the stir in there. So, yeah, it's gonna be a pretty Maybe I should make an allowance.

**Speaker 2:** Yeah. How did you know I was 18? No. Just I just guessed you were about 18. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. That makes sense. Yeah. Most people think I thought you're probably a fresher. You know? No. No. Second year of college. Yeah. I'll be next year. Yeah.

**Speaker 1:** I'll be moving up there. You like the beach? Yeah. It's only reason you're going. Exactly. Well, I work You look very artistic. Do you think? I think so. Yeah. Okay.

**Speaker 0:** Finally, you've stacked again. But this now we're on to topic number what? Four, five, six? So coming back to last week's podcast, a good daygamer will only ever have one maximum two topics to vibe on. I'm not sure if you're following the daygame model all the time. In this approach, no. So yeah. Things done in the wrong order. Go back to basics. I think so. Yeah. Very musical. Yeah. Yeah.

**Speaker 2:** But yeah. So if you're moving to next year. Yeah. So it should be pretty good. Yeah. Not really. I don't really like London. So

**Speaker 1:** it's not my I love London. Do you? I love London. I hate London. You and I never get along. I like to spend my all my time in London. Really? Oh, I can't stand it. It's too busy. Boat trips or, like, just general hubbub and everything.

**Speaker 2:** It's a bit busy for Just the bus. I prefer quieter. Okay.

**Speaker 0:** I'm skipping to the end because there's a lot more kind of comfort, waffle, and awkward silences. But fair play to mister m, he does go for the close. So let's hear the close.

**Speaker 1:** Not too bad. We should have a drink. Yeah. Other time. Bung your number in. Yep. We won't meet in London. Yeah. She don't like London. Yeah. I don't like London.

**Speaker 2:** I picked up on that. Yeah. Not my favorite place.

**Speaker 1:** Do you like my phone? I do. It's good, isn't it? Yeah. It's retro. Going o seven. Five eight three.

**Speaker 0:** Okay. So fair play to mister m. Even though it was a wobbly interaction, he went for the close. And after that, there's a bit where he's basically saying they won't meet in London. They're gonna meet somewhere in another city. But the bit that comes after is too invested. He basically sets up the date in full in a place a long way away from London, and it's too heavy. So I always keep the clothes light. Listen. You seem cute. A bit weird, but cute. Drop you a message. Okay. How do I spell your name? Your number is 07. Listen. Maybe Tuesday, maybe Thursday next week. I don't know. So don't be too heavy. Don't set up the date like it's a wedding proposal. We don't need to hear the end of that. We shall wrap it up there. Thank you once again for having the courage mister m to have your audio played. It was a nice clear recording. So thank you for that as well. The takeaways, if you were my student, first of all, I would say, don't run before you can walk. It sounds patronizing, but don't freestyle. This is why the scaffolding model was created, to deal precisely with the things we heard today. So don't do indirect direct. Go direct. Keep it simple. You're making daygame much harder than it needs to be. Shower number two, I think, my next neighbor. Dirty fuckers. So learn the model in bits. And somebody asked me last week, how do you, learn the different stages of the daygame model? Well, daygame is linear. So first, learn to open. And I think mister m can do that. Just go up to 10 girls if you're new and say, hi. You look very nice. Have a nice day. Does she smile? Yep. You've learned how to open. And did she stop? Okay. Second thing, learn how to stack. See, the next day you could go up to 10 girls and go, don't forget the opener. You could say, hi. You look nice. You don't look like you're from London. I'm gonna say you're from Sweden. And the next girl you say, hi. You look very beautiful. You don't look like you're from London. I'm gonna say you're Mediterranean. She replies, there you go. Have a nice day. The third day, you can do the tricky bit. You can vibe on the topic she gives you. So you can go up to a girl and say, hi. I know this is random but you look very beautiful. You don't look British. I'm going to say you're Canadian. And she says, no, she's Australian. And you say, okay. Well, funny you should say that because my friend's just come back from Australia and he said that. Anyway, have a nice day. So do you see? Learn it in bits. And really, we're learning when a girl has hooked. When is it just chatty chatty social like it was now? And when is she actually interested in you? Her attentions to you. She's playing with her hair. She's crossed her legs. She's really interesting interested in you. It's not just polite chitchat. If you're doing day game in England, America, Canada, Australia, be very careful of these chatty sets to nowhere where she doesn't know what you want. Don't freestyle. So have some basic stacks and vibing stories. Watch dirty trick seminar or read street hustle. I give you lots of free examples, all my favorites. Definitely, mister m, cut the laughter. Everybody listening to that today, I know felt it. I'm sure you did too. It's very hard to listen to yourself. You might be cringing there, like watching an episode of the British Office. And it's the harshest way to learn. You need to cut it out, you're breaking sexual tension. And finally, this has to do with calibration but learn when to cut. Learn when to cut and when she's showing signs of nerves, she's looking at her phone, she says she gotta go and find her friends, there's lots of awkward pauses. Learn when to walk away. Either you fucked up, which is probably likely blame yourself, I always do. That was weird. I blame myself. Okay. Have a nice day. Bye. Or okay. It might have been her having a bad day, but whatever. Don't get into these awkward situations where you prolong them. Fair play for trying to close, but as you said, she flaked. Anyway, back to future Tom for the end of the podcast. Thank you, Tom from the past and of course, mister m. Just to finish this podcast, episode a 180, let's zoom out and look at why freestyling as a beginner is dangerous. If you watch beginner's guide to daygame, that YouTube video with Charlie and Kevin, you'll see at the beginning, they're making all the mistakes that every other beginner makes. I'm sure you do or you did with the up talk, talking too fast, stammering, asking questions, running out of things to say, missing the topic, closing too early, etcetera, etcetera. So that is why pickup came about standing on the shoulders of giants as in the Mystery Method was the first book, the first system to break down the order in which to do things if you don't wanna fuck up. So don't freestyle. The Mystery Method says, first do attraction, which is the teasing, the challenging, the banter, the taking the piss. Then when you got the hook point, do comfort. You need comfort to be real. And then once she trusts you enough, switch into seduction. So the order always goes attraction, comfort, seduction. Whether you're doing Tinder, gay game, daygame, nightgame, it's attraction, comfort, and seduction. So the message from mister M, but for everybody else is to know where you are. I say to my students, sometimes I used to tap him literally on the shoulder after the set and say, where are you? Did you do the attraction? Did you get the hook point? Did you go into comfort? And then on the date, say, well, where are you? Have you got enough comfort to do verbal escalation? Have you ticked that off? Are you into physical escalation? Have you done enough seduction to pull home when she's back in your house? Do you know when to pull the trigger? That's because there is scaffolding. So trust it. From the Mystery Method came the daygame version in around 2010. I saw it first, I think 2010. It was called the Daygame Blueprint, which was two guys, Andy and Yad. I went on to teach and live with them. They took the Mystery Method and they applied it in field theoretically and they built this daygame blueprint. And then for the next three, four years, an instructor called John Matrix and I taught hundreds of daygame boot camps using the daygame blueprint and we cut the fat off it. We refined it to something a lot more actionable, which is what I've been nagging you to do today. So keep it simple. Go back to basics. I know I nag you all the time, but it's there for a reason. And once you've internalized all this stuff and you know your attraction material, you know how to stack and vibe, you essentially know where the hook point is, you know how to build rapport and close properly, you know how to seduce on a date, then you can free still. And of course, you've internalized it, you don't think about it. But this whole just be yourself, good luck, see how it goes, that's not game. Game has structure and rules just like chess, just like poker. So don't don't try to and go to a pro poker tournament if you've never learned the basic hands. Alright. Podcast 180. Next week, I shall be in the sunshine. I'll be in Cyprus. I don't know if I'm gonna well, I'll do a podcast, but I don't know if it's gonna be another one of these daygame diagnosis ones. I'll save that probably for the following week just because these are more technical to sit down and edit and splice and all that. It takes me a bit longer. So next week, I shall waffle on about something from Cypress in the sun, hopefully in an olive grove or orange orchard, something like that. And my message to you, as ever, stay horny, grab life by the horns, don't take things too seriously, get offline and go and talk to some beautiful girls. Until next week, goodbye.