--- title: Episode 34 Frame Control episode_number: 34 era: early source_file: Episode 34 Frame Control.mp3 audio_size_mb: 57.3 duration_sec: 1877.4 duration_min: 31.3 language: en provider: deepgram model: nova-3 diarized: true confidence: 0.995 transcribed_at: 2026-05-27T17:15:36Z--- # Episode 34 Frame Control **Speaker 0:** Tom Torero podcast 34. Yaksimash. This time not a Polish irony. Something that Bora actually said because I'm in, as Eddie calls it, the Kazakhstan. Sitting here with Eddie Hitchens from Street Attraction. Alright, Eddie? Hey, what's up, Tommy, baby? Nice. I love how Eddie's calling me Tommy. Fast Eddie. We'll call Eddie. Steady Eddie. Steady Eddie. Teddy Eddie when it gets a bit romantic. Deja vu because this is the second time we've recorded this fucking podcast as Eddie would say. Eddie prefaces everything with fucking and he draws out his words. Yeah. I'll take that habit back with me, Eddie. Yeah. The first time we recorded this podcast was on my old iPhone, which I've had for two years. Collected all my numbers and my WhatsApps and my contacts and my dirty photos, you know. And I left it in the back of a gypsy taxi. Gypsy as in just a random man's car that you can flag down in Kazakhstan. So I lost my leads for Kazakhstan, and I lost lots of good footage, all those videos. And guys would go, well, just, you know, get it from the cloud. I didn't back anything up in the fucking cloud. I was too lazy. So we're recording this on one of Eddie's two phones. Eddie, you've got two phones like a pimp. Yeah. One for the bitches and one for the hoes. What a pro. What a pro. And a drug dealer as well. Topic of this podcast is Eddie Hitchens, Like This Is Your Life. Welcome Eddie Hitchens to the studio. Thanks for having me. We'll see it in a fucking in a Kazakh apartment. It's our last day, and, you'll find out why we're very ready to leave. But we're gonna weave in a theme. The theme being frame, a very misunderstood pickup concept, a life concept, really a business concept, a universal concept frame, and how that applies to Eddie, how that applies to Kazakhstan, and how that applies to you. So I'll kick off Eddie saying, you've got a very strong frame, which, you could say could be explained by Balkan roots or you're growing up in London. Why do you think you've got a strong frame? Thank you, Tommy. **Speaker 1:** Thanks. Yeah, thanks for that great compliment. I definitely had an advantage having Balkan roots. So a lot of game concepts that guys have to learn, like having a strong frame, enforcing boundaries, polarity, masculinity, dominance, all of that. Certainly had an advantage because I had Balkan roots, so that certainly helped. A lot of these concepts, I kind of took for granted, you know, seeing how my dad behaved around my mom and all of that. So Is that is that male pride, I think, still in you **Speaker 0:** in Balkan countries, Eastern Europe, Middle Europe, obviously, **Speaker 1:** Male pride. Yeah? Definitely. The male pride is something that most Balkan men have. Not all of them, but a lot of them certainly have it, which meant that even before game, I would exercise, you know, boundaries. So if a girl took the piss, I would address it, you know, say, no. No. No. This is too far. You're going too far with this. So, certainly, being a Balkan guy helps **Speaker 0:** has definitely helped me. Yeah. You've been in the pickup scene since 2005. Yeah? Pre release of Mystery Method, was the game out then? I can't remember if it is 2005, it's around then. But you've been in it now for ten years, you old git, yeah? Do you want to explain to the guys who don't know you and your company street attraction, where you came from? Sure, yeah. So actually the game came out in September **Speaker 1:** 2005. Such a nerd. Yeah. I think I got into game at the end of two thousand and five. It was my best friend who introduced me to it. He lent me some David D'Angelo DVDs and CDs. Initially, was very skeptical. I thought, nah. This this is just like bullshit. This is like I don't know. I was very skeptical. But, basically, I saw him get success. I saw him struggle as well. And then all of a sudden, I saw him with a nice girl. He had a nice looking girlfriend. Then two months later, he replaced her with a hotter one. So, you know, I was completely sold. I thought, well, certainly, it's worked for him. So **Speaker 0:** What kind of day game were you doing in 2005? Because, obviously, it was pre theory, pre infields, pre structure apart from night game structure. What was going on? Because that was before me. What was going on in London 2006, 2007? **Speaker 1:** Yeah. When I look back at, say, 02/1956, it it was I I don't know. Like, I have nostalgia for those days because, obviously, I was younger, but also, you know, the streets weren't littered with loads of PUAs. You know? The streets were kind of like there for the taking. And initially, was quite clueless. You know? So I started off with night game, then I just naturally transitioned into doing daygame. So I thought like, yeah, why not just approach girls in the daytime? So I would literally put my skates on and Smooth. Yeah. And I would skate over to Trafalgar Square, approach girls there, Leicester Square, Regent Street, Oxford Street. I figured by wearing skates, I'll be able to go from set to set quicker. **Speaker 0:** And also Have you seen A digression. Have you seen Blades of Glory, Will Ferrell? No. I haven't actually. That's fair. I just imagine you as Will Ferrell on ice skates. Anyway, in a tight spandex suit. But anyway, carry on. No. **Speaker 1:** I was wearing quite baggy stuff. But no. I need to watch that movie. I think I've seen the trailer. It looks hilarious. Fucking brilliant. So, yeah. I figured by skating, I could approach more girls, but also I saw it as a DHP because the girls would instantly think, well, okay, he must be local because tourists don't generally skate. And, he's got a kind of adventurous, sporty side to him. So, yeah, I started off with that. So I did do some night game with the wing, Richard's older brother, Tom, but daygame, I did pretty much on my own. So I didn't have anyone to push me into sets. I would have to I would have to motivate myself. What I did have was a virtual wing. So it was Tom, Richard's brother. So I would do a couple of sets, and then I'd call Tom up and say, hey. This is what happened. I did a four set. It was it was a mixed set. I tried this out, and it worked beautifully. And he would be really keen to hear my stories and how things played out. **Speaker 0:** So And through him, the stars align for you meeting Richard or Ricardo Yes. Or one of his other aliases, the knight The knight bastard. Yes. The knight bastards. Yes. Yes. So what that was a a beautiful coincidence in in game history. By 2011, I think you had formed Street Attraction. So Yes. How was that finding Richard? **Speaker 1:** So, basically, Tom was my first Tom, Richard's brother, was my first proper wing. And then what happened with him, he joined the Royal Marines. And then by that time Richard had kind of matured a little bit. I started hanging out with Richard a little bit more. But what I noticed with Richard was that he was kind of depressed. He had very low self esteem. And initially, I just wanted to help him out, you know, because I could see him struggling with girls. He was really, really clueless, like, really, really bad. He would have these horrible text exchanges with girls or non text exchanges where he would send 10 texts, you know, with no reply, things like that. So initially, I just wanted to help out Richard. You know? I'd had no I'd no idea that, you know, he'd actually join me in street attraction, you know, further down the line. So initially, was just charity. **Speaker 0:** You know? But the transformation is remarkable, you know? It's that nature nurture argument of whether Richard or my old wing Sam, you know, whether those guys had it inside them all along and you untapped it like a keg, you know, like a fucking firework. Or, yeah, it's that process of maturing and and and by that stage, having some kind of structure for daygame passing that on. But if you haven't seen Eddie and Richards in fields and shenanigans around the Balkans and the world, really go and check them out, obviously, their YouTube channel. But let's bring it back to frame because it's obvious your personalities. Both you and Richard have fucking strong frames. And before I met you on this trip, this is the first time Eddie and I have been away together in a non romantic way. You you come across in your videos as very dominant. I think that's why guys gravitate to you, especially with this new form of daygame. Yeah. This polarized, masculine daygame. You've got a big following for this. So you've mentioned about your upbringing with some street fighting, things going on at school, mean streets, just a very acute social intelligence from a young age. How how has that contributed to this frame for game? **Speaker 1:** Yeah. Well, basically, obviously, I'm not gonna go into it now, but, yeah, I've had my fair share of, fights in school, on the streets. So that kinda helps to make you a little bit more fearless. You know? So in in comparison, say, to street fights, pickup doesn't seem that scary, you know. So there is that comparative effect. It's good to go through some trials and tribulations, some tough times, because, you know, if you survive it, then you just grow and you do become stronger. So that's definitely helped. And also because I tend to some really dodgy schools, and so, you know, you had to have a strong frame. Otherwise, **Speaker 0:** you would you'll be bullied. You know? Alright. Well, let's let's unpick frame. Right? Yeah. I guess guys have a notion of it. If you're new to it, you probably think, like most of the pickup community, it's just the underlying energy of the interaction. But frame is a lot more complex than that. Because when you say to someone like dominant frame and you imagine like a Russian dude, yeah, or here in Kazakhstan, the guys are very rough around the edges. All the taxi drivers we've had have lost it, yeah, and had massive massive shouting matches with people on the road. There's a there's a bubbling under the surface of violence here. Yeah? Would you agree? Yeah. But that's not good frame for life or for game. Yeah? Definitely not. Definitely not. Good frame means that **Speaker 1:** you remain in control despite shit hitting the fan. You know? Basically, you have to stay composed. The person who stays composed is the person who wins. So, yes, you need to be able to stand up and fight for yourself when you, when necessary, but at the same time, you shouldn't, be one of these guys that just loses it in a second. That's not very that's not very clever, and it's certainly not good frame. Cialdini says, speak **Speaker 0:** softly, but carry a big stick. Yeah? Or the friendly thief. So I always think good frame is a good teacher, yeah, or a good parent. I remember a quote that said, always hold the frame but resist given the impression that you are. Yes. So basically, you're mystical. You've got that smirk. You're fun. You're jovial. You know, when a girl gives you some shit, you it just falls off you because you smile and, make fun of her back, pass it back. But sure, as you said, there are these times Yeah. Especially if you lived in Kazakhstan as we've discovered. Yeah. You have to do what my friend Steve calls the BOB. Right? Boundaries on bullshit. Yes. Which is like a good teacher or a good parent. Sometimes they just go, wait. Stop. Right? So that's boundaries. Yeah? Absolutely. So **Speaker 1:** I think one way to exercise your frame is to nip things in the bud. So what I do, this doesn't just apply to women, it also applies to men. If someone's someone does something or says something to me that I dislike, I'll make sure that they know this. So I basically nip bad behavior in the bud. So if if a girl does something, I'll say, hey. Hey. Hey. Nope. You can't do that. You know? I won't tolerate such behavior. **Speaker 0:** If you carry on with this, I'm I'm leaving. You know? Frame is way, way, way beyond women. Yes. This is why I love the concept of frame because it if game is the Trojan horse, my frame has changed for my interactions with service people being British, you know, we don't wanna tread on any toes. We say everything is okay. We never complain. I've learned to just speak out. When I used to have the nine to five job, I started speaking out with peers, with clients, learning to speak out. And as you said, not in a if you lose it every time, that shows you're not in control. It shows that your your your emotional buttons are easily pushed. But Absolutely. Yeah. A guy with strong frame, you you don't even really have to say anything. You know? People sense it. Like, animals sense it. Children sense it. Somebody with a strong frame is smiling, but you're not gonna mess with them. Do you remember that guy? We had a guide yesterday that took us deep into the mountains of Kazakhstan. And Yeah. Do you wanna explain about this guy and his frame? Because it was very cool. Yesterday, **Speaker 1:** one of our tour guides, he was a very masculine Kazakh guy. I think he had some Mongolian roots. You could sense that he had, you know, strong frame, quite strong boundaries the second he walked into that car. He wasn't over smiling. There wasn't over pleasantries. **Speaker 0:** No. Eye contact was good. Voice was good. And then Yeah. We found out through the other guy that he was MMA trained. Obviously, no. He was a coach. Yeah. Wasn't a massive steroids guy, but you could see, you know, a guy you'd be more worried about. Yeah. You could just sense it because he's not trying too hard to be pleasant. He's not trying to be too approval seeking. You just sense it. But he's also not trying to be too badass. **Speaker 1:** Exactly. Because the thing is, guys, you know, who are trying to be too badass, who are trying to be too loud, it's usually a sign of insecurity. You know? They feel weak, so they feel that they've gotta overcompensate for their weakness. You see? So in prison, that's how he is. The guy who goes who walks in, you know, who's nice and calm, you know, not trying too hard to be someone he's not. He's usually the guy that most guys wanna fuck with. Yeah. You know? But if you walk into prison and you're shouting, trying to be loud, you're gonna get fucked up. What's that Jeremy Kyle clip you made me watch just so you can reference **Speaker 0:** this point? Mad **Speaker 1:** dog Dion. Type it in YouTube. **Speaker 0:** There's a man who's trying to present strong frame Yeah. And it just goes wrong from about two seconds in. Yeah. Absolutely. There's **Speaker 1:** there's an immense power in being a bit of a minimalist, not doing too much, not saying too much, you know, not being too flashy. **Speaker 0:** That's actually that's always a sign of true confidence, true power. A perfect example of this, other than the the guy yesterday, is a comedian who I thought I just enjoyed on a geeky level and then discovered that you have the same geeky fascination, obsession with this man. He literally changed the course of my life. I talk about him in my book daygame because he he was doing daygame ish things years before us. And then you same thing for you. And this man is Dom Jolly, j o l y. If you don't know who this guy is, just type in trigger happy TV to YouTube. And now this was years before, like, cheesy prank videos, cheesy American prank videos on YouTube. This guy is very, he's a super strong friend, super nonreactive, embraces awful, awful social pressure, doesn't back down, but does it in a very calm, **Speaker 1:** ironic, like, it's almost melancholic way. Yeah. Dom Jolly. Yeah. Dom Jolly, I fucking love, love Dom Jolly. I remember back in '99 running home, you know, on Friday night to to watch trigger happy TV. Yeah. I I think he he was definitely an influence on me as well. You know? Me and my cousin, who unfortunately passed away in 2011, we were obsessed with a guy, and we would rewatch episodes, and we would actually try to reenact certain things ourselves actually in the street. But, yeah, the guy's frame is really, really impressive. I'd love to interview him to find out why his frame was so good and where did he did he actually adopt **Speaker 0:** it from. He had all these daygame qualities like leading **Speaker 1:** Yeah. **Speaker 0:** Really awkward leading. He would lead unsuspecting tourists into his into his reality. He would qualify people like shit. You know, like, his frame was always right, and there's one a bus stop when he's when he's created, like, a VIP area. Yeah. It might be on Will Shut Your Mouth or it might be on Trigger Happy. Yeah. And he gets accosted by two, like, local council officials saying he doesn't have a permit to put up this VIP area. He just demolishes them Yeah. By qualifying, you know, who that right do you have. Yeah. Yeah. So he's obviously challenging. Yeah. He passed his shit tests. His voice is badass. Yeah. He's got very very poker face, always higher status. Absolutely. And non apologetic. It's like not backing down. Yeah. And it's it's a bit like the first time you ever saw David Brent maybe in the office. You have to almost look away because you know you're losing the frame. He he's keeping the frame. It's awesome. **Speaker 1:** Guy who's got amazing frame is Donald Trump. You know, just check out his interviews. He deals with these opponents magnificently. **Speaker 0:** It's we're both also fans of Patrice O'Neil. Yeah. Rest in peace, Patrice O'Neil. Much loved, much hated comedian because despite whatever he said, he didn't back down. Yeah. His famous quote, you know, on frame is that women don't wanna win. They want a winner, which if you take that out of context, of course, that attracts a lot of hatred. But he's talking about, what Russian women have said to me, and I'm sure Balkan women have said to you. Many Russian women have said to me, Tom, I want you to be rock because I am like a stormy sea. I need a rock. And if you say to Russian and Balkan women and Kazakh women about the behavior you could say of Western women, they say that they they just understand them at instinctual level. They understand polarity, and they enjoy being inside the man's frame. Yes. Yeah? Yes. And Patrice, like I preach, always preached a deep love of women. Yeah. Uh-huh. But he's saying the world is not right. Things don't work out right. There's no balance if you don't have this man to woman frame. And in a country like Kazakhstan, but obviously, you travel, you teach a lot, you do a lot of resis in the Balkans. Yeah. These are countries, despite being on the fringes of Europe, these countries have man woman frame. Yeah? Can you Yeah. Can you lift the lid on a bit of Balkan frame? **Speaker 1:** Yeah. In the Balkans, there's a lot of polarity. The women know their place, and they're happy to be in that place, most of them anyway. And the men know their role as well. Yeah. If you're gonna be gaming in the Balkans, don't be running any Saturday game shit there. You know? You need to have a very masculine vibe. The women are just not gonna respect you or listen to you. Yeah. I'd say for that and for Eastern Europe and Russia, **Speaker 0:** replace the teasing Yeah. With challenging. Yeah. Because they're both elements of attraction, really, and replace, you could say, a lot more of the surreal, wacky American style storytelling with qualifying. Okay? Because a badass guy will qualify. And now, once again, not confrontational, not aggressive. We're not talking about hard dominance. We're talking about soft dominance. So here's the killer thing. Alright? I reckon, you know, with same with Vulcan and FSU, Eastern Europe. You've got the masculine energy, but what you bring to the pickup is this British charm. Yeah? Is this softness? Is this intellect? Because you love movies and literature and travel. So can you because again, I know a guy's gonna write a comment about frame being a steroid guy, a jacked guy No. Definitely a Goodfellas guy, a mafiosa guy. Okay. That is that what Eddie's saying I need to be? Definitely not. I think it's **Speaker 1:** again, with most things, you know, the truth is in the middle, you know, the the sweet middle. I think what I have is I've got some of that Balkan dominance, which is good, but I also have the British, you could say soft softness, some of the British wit, that sort of thing, you know. One of my most proudest pickups was about a year and a half ago when I picked up a salsa teacher in Bar Salsa. I went in there with no intention to do any salsa. I walked in there with a trench coat and boots. Went to the bar, got myself a beer, saw her, approached her. Five, ten minutes later, got a number. The pickup was quite quick. She actually later told me that she was intrigued by me because initially, she was a little bit threatened by me. That that is a good thing, isn't it? Absolutely. So you're on the right way. And in the pickup, she I spoke with her and she said, you know, I don't know. She started talking about Oscar Wilde. She was a fan of Oscar. Nice. And I was able to, you know, hold my own. I dropped a few Oscar Wilde quotes. We spoke about the guy a little bit, and she liked that because I showed some of the Balkan macho Mhmm. Stuff, and then I mixed it with the British softness or intelligence. So she thought, Oh, wow, this guy is a bit different. So basically, it's about, yeah, having that sweet combination of dominance **Speaker 0:** mixed with some of the softness. So it's like softer dominance. See, Rdini talks about it as well, doesn't he? That's an age old sales technique. Yes. Strong frame, but likability. Yes. Now why Kazakh men don't do daygame and get laid through cold approach and why Russian men don't get laid even if they try cold approach is that it's too dominant. The frame is too explicit. It's too challenging from a from a darker place. Yeah. You know? Leading from a darker place, escalating from a darker place. So, yeah, I feel very lucky that you can bring European charm, you know, even if fucking works in California, you know Yeah. Where these girls have strong friends. But if you can bring that English witticism Yeah. Which is what Dom Jolly has, which is what Monty Python has, which is what Black Adder has, it's the opposite of that cheesy grin. Yeah? Absolutely. It's saying I'm in control, but I'm doing it from a place of love. Yeah. You you what was that Richard quote about him overcoming a wasn't it a shit test? Was this in Shoreditch? **Speaker 1:** Yeah. Richard said to her, have a nice day. She replied with, fuck off. And he he responded with, well, then have a really nice day. That's great. You know? And that that's a great example of holding your frame. He didn't allow her to mess up his positive vibe. He just carried on smiling. And what's funny about this story is that we actually did see her crack a smile because she was actually impressed that despite her extreme negativity Yeah. She wasn't able to mess up to mess up his vibe. Nonreactivity **Speaker 0:** is is 95% of the time frame. Yeah. Or cocky funny is is framed. But, yeah, there are incidences like I've spoken about from my Russia trips last year where when you do put your foot down Yeah. Hard to the floor, you just say no. You do some stronger leading, stronger escalating. Our friend Krauser does this when he does his kind of intellectual domination. Yes. And this just crushes their frame if they're very, feisty, if the shit tests are flying. He'll lecture them, with a monologue often on very dry topics. And on the surface, you think, well, that breaks all the game principles. Yeah. Like, you shouldn't talk about, religion, politics, anything academic, and you certainly shouldn't be doing all the investing. But, this needs to be done. If you're gonna travel in the Former Soviet Union, it's really, really changed my game. Because when I was doing Covent Garden, Trafalgar Square kind of game on friendly Italians and friendly Spanish and stuff, you can get away with a softer frame. Yeah? But Balkans, Former Soviet Union, God Russian, Jesus Christ, Kazakhstan, as we've discovered this week, you'll just get an ass whipping, alright, from all sides of society. Talking to Kazakhstan, mate, to conclude this podcast just before we fly home tomorrow, Final thoughts, Kazakhstan. **Speaker 1:** Final thoughts. **Speaker 0:** You can give it a one word answer. **Speaker 1:** Shit. No. Kazakhstan is still better than some countries that I've been to, but on the whole, it's a little bit too quiet, not a lot of volume. The girls that we do see, most of them, we don't really find very approachable, not not very attractive. I mean, I think if you're into your Asian girls Yeah. Then Kazakh then Kazakhstan is probably a good place to come to. It's kind of like Russian legs **Speaker 0:** with very Asian faces or you can say very Mongolian faces Yes. Much more than I thought. Yeah. So I I was expecting to see, you know, **Speaker 1:** kind of **Speaker 0:** more mixed looking girls, but No. Not really. It's one or the other. It's very one or the other. They're either white or they **Speaker 1:** are Mongolian. Yeah. I mean, they look Mongolian. **Speaker 0:** Yeah. Volume of sets is low Yeah. Because we're in the middle of nowhere. **Speaker 1:** And also, we've I mean, there's always an underlying element of violence here. **Speaker 0:** I was I had bad frame in a petrol station Yeah. Yesterday on the way to the mountains. When a guy pushed in the queue, an old guy, 55, 60, big guy. But he pushed in the queue, threw his money down, shouted something, and I gave him a dirty look. And then he said something in Russian, and he said a Russian swear word, a phrase that I know. And I replied, you know, go fuck yourself. Under my breath, didn't think anything else of it, paid for my thing, came out at a petrol station, and there he was. And he just lamp me one. You know? Again, like in Russia, that's how that's how how anything is dealt with. Just a punch to the face. No questions asked. You know? And, obviously, nothing would be done about it. Yeah. I learned my lesson for being reactive and not respecting, you could say, how things are dealt with here. Yeah. It was a good reminder. And like I said, the taxi drivers, just as you said, as as in Moscow, as in a lot of the Balkans, you feel like under the surface. Any minute now, things are gonna kick off. Yeah. And if they kick off, then people won't be afraid to stand up for themselves. You know? Exactly. Yeah. You gotta be ready for that. If wanna if you wanna travel to these parts of the world, that's just a fact of life. But we've had a lot of fun. Like, it's been quirky. We've got a hell of a lot of weird, extremely weird footage from chickens and goats to bizarre forms of Kazakh entertainment, hats, costumes, Eddie trying a virtual reality attraction in a fairground today run by a small Kazakh boy. That will be featured on videos. And you're making a summary video as you always do, Eddie, aren't you? Yeah. **Speaker 1:** It's gonna be probably about fifteen or twenty minutes long. I'll do a video on Kazakhstan **Speaker 0:** and why you should avoid it. And for guys to check out your other stuff? **Speaker 1:** Street-attraction.com. Check out approach delay. It's a product that will take you from the approach to the actual lay. **Speaker 0:** I thought that's why you called it approach to lay, but it is with an English girl in London. It is 18 year old blonde English girl, so I approach her in the daytime. **Speaker 1:** And then two or three hours later, I have her in my room, and, I'm banging away. **Speaker 0:** Alrighty. Grandfather time once again. It's up. Kazakhstan, thank god, is, drawing to a close. And I should point out, dear listeners, that this is gonna be my last podcast for a couple of months. I'll explain why or you might have already seen why on my YouTube channel. Just taking a little rest. So I've feasted on all the other podcasts, all 33 of them. Look at all my channel. Look at Eddie and Rich's channel. There's there's enough to keep you going. You don't need anymore. You're spoiled. Okay? That is by far enough to go out, get started, even travel to the countries that Eddie's talked about to get a grip. Alright? On daygame. But thank you for listening to all these podcasts. If you followed them from number one, and cheers to Eddie for for the laughs this week. And I will see you probably where will I see you? London? London. Yeah. London in December for something that we're cooking up, perhaps with Nicholas Krauser if we can persuade him. **Speaker 1:** Yeah. Thanks for having me, Tommy. No. She cunt. **Speaker 0:** Ta da. Bye.