---
title: Episode 70 Gutter Game
episode_number: 70
era: mid
source_file: Episode 70 Gutter Game.mp3
audio_size_mb: 53.5
duration_sec: 1754.7
duration_min: 29.2
language: en
provider: deepgram
model: nova-3
diarized: true
confidence: 0.992
transcribed_at: 2026-05-28T07:07:07Z---

# Episode 70 Gutter Game

**Speaker 0:** Tom

**Speaker 1:** Torero, podcast 70 from Vancouver Airport about to get on an airplane to cross the Atlantic, I guess, via Greenland back to London. And before we board, I think we got time. I'm sitting here with mister Kassidy from podcast 69. If you remember, we've been traveling around British Columbia in a van together, listen to 69 before this one really to get up to speed on what's been going on, where we've been, what we've been doing. And this is a little add on you could say because we've been in Vancouver for a few days now doing some coaching and doing some last minute daygame. And rather than it really being daygame, it's turned out to be gutter game. That's a term that I think I coined in 2012 somewhere around then gutter game. Just daygame in the night, which means not going into bars, not going into clubs, but in full lover mode, in full beast mode, going out late at night, roaming the streets, outside bars and clubs and pizza shops and kebab shops and wherever and not getting absolutely hammered, not going out with a massive group of guys but looking for bounce back. So you could say it's same night lays rather than same day lays. Daygame doesn't just mean during the day. It just means anywhere that's outside of a bar or club. You have to focus on leading. You have to focus on escalating. You're not taking phone numbers. You're looking for an instant bounce, which is not really like a normal instant date because you're probably gonna bounce her into a bar or it's gonna be pretty fast. It's gonna be sexual. It pushes you because you're against the clock. It's what I call burn your boats. You're filtering, so you're putting it on. You're polarizing. You're gonna get blowouts. You're finding out logistics, who she's with, where she's staying, when she's going home, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera. So we've been doing this in Vancouver with mixed results, ups and downs. So mister Cassidy, first of all, we had some daygame sets that led into nights, and we also did some gutter games. So what was happening in the last couple of days? I think we've been here since Friday. Yeah. Friday. Friday, Saturday. Today is Sunday. So that was a pretty short window of time to try and get laid. So what happened?

**Speaker 2:** Well, Friday night, we arrived late to Vancouver, I think, and I was exhausted from the antics in podcast 69. If you've listened to that, you'll know why. The end of that podcast. Yeah. The end of that podcast. So I only did one set on Friday night, but it turned out to be a flake. Saturday, we were coaching, and in between coaching, I did a little bit of daygame. Tom did a little bit of daygame. My first set was an Australian girl that I instant dated. She was going out with friends that night, so it wasn't ideal. So after the instant date, I took a number and dropped her a text later on the in the day hoping that she might come out later. Next set was a little feisty Filipino hostess who was wandering around in a cute little uniform. I managed to get her out on a date later that evening, but, this was the start of my woes. I had a night of blue balls. So she came out on the date. She was late. I met her in a I went to the bar. She texted me to ask me told me to come outside. I just ignored it. I think I read that in one of your books, Tom. I just ignored it, and I could see her outside, and she she saw me, and I just I just waved my finger, wagged her in, and she come in really angry, pissed off. I just laughed. And she yeah. Tom predicted that she was gonna be hard work, which she was. She just shit tested me from the off the whole night. But I could sense it was it was it was touch and go whether, you know, I could get the lay. She she ended up coming back. I got her back into my bedroom. She got her tits out. I I sucked on them. She didn't suck on anything else. Then she just fucking went mental. Phoneed up a friend. A friend was coming to pick her up. And yeah, I just I I had enough of her games and I kicked her out. I left her on the side of the street and I What time was that? This was about this was about midnight. I I kicked her out and I wanted to go back into the into the city for a bit of gutter game. I thought there's no point wasting my time with her, so I left her on the side of the road and I got a taxi and I went back into town. Just about $60 worth of taxis later.

**Speaker 1:** Let me segue in here with while mister Cassidy was battling a small Filipino, I was I'd had a bit of a flake as well because on the first night when you had got a number, I had got a number of this Ukrainian bodybuilder. She was better than that sounds. She was just toned, I guess. Funny meeting a Ukrainian in Vancouver, but there you go. She seemed very on and anyway she flaked. So I'd had a couple of other flaky things. So I while Craig was out, I thought fuck this. And this is the good thing about when you mate when they when you're against the clock we knew we were flying home today, I knew Craig was out. It pushes you on. I could have stayed in. I was knackered. We were pretty ill yesterday actually from the from the week shenanigans but I was like no no no. So I was out about 10PM roaming the streets around what's it called Gastown? Gastown. Yeah. Gastown and lo and behold coming towards me was a girl looking at me and kind of half smiling half crying. It's a weird stop. I've recorded this so I'll put it out at some point and she she was happy to chat and I gave her the compliment. I said why are crying? She said I've just been waiting for a guy on a date. It's our third date and he didn't show up and I'm all dressed up and gonna go home and I hate men and blah blah blah blah blah. I said don't hate men. Look, the best revenge is success. Success. Come on. Took her for a drink. I see at first because she didn't drink alcohol. She was drinking fucking caramel tea. I had a beer. But she was French and she was a singer and she started singing all this jazz to me. This is on on the recording. It's amazing. And the other people are looking around. It's all getting like a big bubble. I lean in, play with her hair, kiss her. She's talking about Moulin Rouge and how she's she likes being single because she can go in sex shops and try on outfits and take photos of herself. And I was like, right. Okay. I said to her, do you have a piano at home? She said, yeah. I have a keyboard. I said, right. Well, I'll play. You'll sing. Taxi. Everyone in the bars like smiling the waitresses happy like oh this is so romantic I'm like hella fucking luya you know and she was really good she looked a bit like Heidi Klum anyway we walk out her phone flashes and she goes oh hang on Oh he's here. And that was the guy she was gonna meet. He was about ten minutes away and I tried and tried and tried. You can hear on the recording. I'm like come back with me not with him but he was two dates ahead of me and I think he'd already shagged us. So she went off to meet him and I was furious. Actually, this is the tone of gutter game. You go from extreme highs to extreme lows very quickly. It's game accelerated. All the emotions come out. This is why you shouldn't be drinking too much alcohol, if any. A state control is massive. Having a wing around to help you helps. I met up with Craig just after that because you had just come back from the Filipino nightmare. So we met up again. This was now gone midnight. And, again, if you're on your own, you just cry probably, but because there's two of you and we're thinking, we're not going to bed. That's it now. We're we're basically out to see what happens until the bars close. So we knew we had until about 2AM, 3AM. At this moment, the main street called Granville, very dirty. It reminded me of Austin, Texas or Cardiff. It was just closed to traffic and it was just people going in and out of bars. And twelve is actually a little bit early because there were still girls going into clubs. So remember for gutter game, you don't wanna start trying to pull girls home really around ten, eleven because they're going out for a good time. Prime time, the window of opportunity is after, you know, twelve, half past twelve, coming up to 01:00 and then between one and 2AM, bang. You need to be on. You can't be going into these venues, doing what everybody else does, paying for drinks. No. That's that's you being a sucker. You wanna be waiting outside. You wanna be looking for single gills. You wanna be waiting outside pizza shops. Anywhere where gills go 07:11, it's opportunistic. It's fast. Anyway, what happened next to you, mister Cassidy, after the it was me first, but what happened to you?

**Speaker 2:** So I'd got the rage by this point. And the rage is when you steer the fury, when you're so close to getting laid and it snatched away from you, and then you see all these other girls walking around. I just can't go home. I have to stay out. And so I just went on a rampage. I think I approached over the next few hours 10 to 15 girls. But before that, we were walking down this main Granville Street and we spied a girl, very hipster with purple hair, wasn't she? Yeah. Purple hair and Tom went in. Yeah. Yeah. He spoke to her for about ten minutes then went off on that instant date. And then I the rage just the fury the fury built. I was like, fuck. No. So while he was on his instant date, I ran around. I was approaching girls. And bear in mind, it's gone way past midnight by this point. So any set that I did had to be fast. It had to be polarizing. I had to push as fast as I could because you don't wanna you're not doing the whole date model. You're literally filtering for girls that are up for it right then and there. But I bumped into a acute she was Russian Russian heritage, Russian Finnish heritage girl. I bounced her into a coffee shop. It was funny. It was the it was gonna be the same coffee shop that Tom was in, and he left with his girl just as I was gonna go in. Late night Tim Hortons. Late yeah. Late night Tim Hortons. Yeah. So I went on this instant date, and I you just have to go through the model as fast as possible. So I was spiking. I was escalating, seeing whether she was taking it, but after about twenty twenty odd minutes, I could tell that she just was it wasn't it wasn't on for, and so I had to leave, and this was about I don't know what time did you leave? 01:00. One. Yeah. So then for the next two hours, I stayed up till 3AM. I was just approaching anything and everything that I thought would be good. And, yeah, and that's how it goes sometimes. Nothing. You know, you need to find the right girl in the right frame of mind at the right time for her to just, yeah, talk to her for ten minutes on the street and then bounce her straight back. I think I said to one girl, look, I know this is forward, but I have half a bottle of wine at my house. This was at three in the morning because the bars weren't open, so I couldn't go, look, let's go grab a drink here. My only option was to say, look, you either come back or or it's cool. And, I think at about 3AM, I ran out of energy, the illness kicked in, and so I went home, a very sad young man.

**Speaker 1:** That's the nature of gutter game, you know, high risk, high reward, pushing fast. It is very good if you're bored of daygame or if you're very good at collecting phone numbers, you're bored of texting, you're bored of like normal dating, first date and all that. If you want some adrenaline, if you want some excitement, if you want to feel like you're in Las Vegas or like a Miami thing, do some gutter game in your city. And it's very easy to identify where to go. Where are the main bars? Where are the kebab shops? Where are the pizza shops? Where are the taxi ranks? If you're brave, do it on your own, but probably do it with your wing. Sleep before you go out. Fuel up on coffee. Don't have more than one or two drinks, you know, when you're with the girl. That's the time when we drink. Pump your steak before you go out. Have a shower. Have a cold shower. Do push ups, listen to like hard house, do do anything. You don't wanna be the sleepy guy. You don't wanna be the pissed guy. We saw so many pissed guys fighting and police and all the guys are hammered by 12. That's when you step in. That's when the window of opportunity is there. No. It's not creepy and stalkery because if girls are walking around in heels looking for fun, you're the fun. Right? She's gonna go home with a pissed guy otherwise, and you're you're the guy. So don't don't see it as something dark and creepy. Anyway, let me just check flight boarding. We're all good. We're all good. We managed another cheeky hustle actually there's a hustle that's going to be on on the channel about us getting into the Fairmont Banff Hot Springs basically that's a different hustle but this one was an upgrade which was basically trying to get more leg room and using day game skills so charm ing at the check-in explaining that you'd like a free upgrade and she says, well, you have to wait till the gate, you know, you try and spot her name badge, then you're very sweet and polite to the girls the other side. You check out maps of seats and all that and you know which seats to ask for. We did all that and we managed to get a bit of an upgrade. So there you go. Always be using your day game skills. Anyway, that girl, the girl with the the colored hair, she if you had the same day take list, she basically rapidly ticked off all the points you're looking for. So she she was alternative. She was 20 years old. She had left Kazakhstan. She was Kazakh. You know, we like Vancouver. It was very mixed. And she was Kazakh. She'd not run away, but she'd left home when she was 16 and come alone to Canada. And now she was at university. She was alternative. She was artistic. She had a few piercings. She had a tiny tattoo. She wanted to get more tattoos. She was an introvert. She liked, you know, reading and writing and thinking and photography. She didn't fit in with the group. She'd been to a house party. She'd had a couple of cocktails. And she felt like a bit of an outsider. And anyway, she was just about to get a coffee and go home. She also smoked. So if you spot any of those signals and she had a leather jacket on as well, and she was dreamy. So I was like, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, And it was just it was a bit of luck. She was the right girl to open, we went for a coffee and she was one of those girls because she was young, she was very nervous, she thought I was 40 years old. Cheeky bugger. I mean, she'd never had this kind of interaction, so she was giving off very weak signals, which in retrospect was that she was just shy and nervous, but I thought, I don't know. So we had the coffee. I I I did a bit more comfort, bit more rapport, so she felt okay. Then I just went for it because again, we were against the clock and we were not staying in the center. We were staying on Main Street, which is like a bit of a sleepy area. So I just said, hey, do you like beer? She's like, yep. Said, okay. Well, I know this like hipster place that does all these weird craft beers. I didn't really. I just heard Craig talk about this place. So I just said, well, it's it's it's so good. Get in a cab. It was so late though. There were no cabs. So we walked for a long time and luckily a police guy, a White Knight police guy helped us and showed us a cheeky cab hustle. We got in a cab and I told her, yep, text your friends, tell them you're safe, tell them the address. Just just to reassure her, you know, text them my name if you want. No problem. Here's my Facebook. She came. And luckily, the cab driver stopped just by this amazing hipster dark pub right next to our Airbnb accommodation. So we were in the pub. It was still a bit touch and go, and I managed to get it to the house. She said, I'm not coming in. Okay. We'll smoke on the terrace. Okay. Come to the back terrace in the garden. We had a smoke there. Listen to the music, and I just thought, She's agreed to come into the house alone. We're all alone. Craig's out somewhere, so I pulled her in, kissed her. It was on from there. There was token at the mark, but it was all good. And then I think she was in a taxi home around 03:30 something like that. I didn't go to bed till 05:30 but there you go it's it's it's like daygame on acid and it's not nightgame confuse it with going into bars and clubs and doing big group sets and dealing with cock blocks and doing table game or entourage game or dance floor game or Tinder games. None of that. It's still daygame. So you still have to jump in front of the girl. You still have to tell her she looks nice. Actually, you have to be a lot more sexual. So you have to do the marathoner move. You have to get close. You have to polarize. You still have to get a hook point. You still have to know. You can't just walk up to her and go, hey. You look nice. Let's go. She's gonna think you're just another one of these drunk guys. So you you have to get her to to hook, to be intrigued, and then you say, let's go over here, maybe a beer or you can have a late night coffee, work out logistics, where she's staying, where are you staying, where's the taxi rank, have you got money in your wallet. Before you go out, which is what Craig and I did, you get your fucking apartment sorted. Right? None none of this should be left to chance. So we even sorted out the lighting. So you, like, grade the lighting so it's bright in the hallway so she doesn't freak out when she opens the door. It's kind of semi dark in the living room and then there's one little light in your bedroom. You've made your bed. You've got a condom. You got a playlist. You connected to WiFi. You've downloaded your music. You got some alcohol. Craig had, like, been out onto Main Street to find a bottle of wine, which was needed because the girl's gonna go, well, there's there's no alcohol in the house. We're gonna go out. All these little things, they sound anal, but they might lead you to anal. You know? It can all fuck you up, especially the taxi ride. That nearly fucked me up last night. So if you're choosing an Airbnb, work out, you know, downtown? Where's the happening place? Where do you wanna be staying? So that is got a game and definitely try it. Definitely in London, you've probably heard of Piccadilly Circus, Leicester Square, Pester Square. Any big city on Friday night, Saturday night is gonna have it. It's obviously even better when students are around. Anyway, we can see people going onto the plane. Final thoughts on Vancouver. What did you think of Vancouver for girls and game and and the vibe of Vancouver?

**Speaker 2:** Yeah. It was awesome, actually. I don't think I had one frosty or bad response from any girl that I approached, including Canadians and Australians, Filipinos, Syrians, Russians. Yeah. It was I approached a lot of different girls. All smiled, all stopped. Pretty good. Student did well? Yes. Our student did really well.

**Speaker 1:** Shout out to mister zed,

**Speaker 2:** Hungarian background. Well done, mister zed. It's a very well done. But, yeah, I liked it. There's a lot of tattooed hipster girls, I like being tattooed guy myself. It's yeah. It's pretty awesome. You see the hipsters here,

**Speaker 1:** but pretty rock and roll hipsters. A lot of tattoos yet or huge Asian population. Didn't realize how Asian it is. What do they call it? Not Hong Kong. Van Kong. Van Kong, said the taxi driver. We call it the Van Kong. Not Van Kong. Not Van Kong, unless you're lucky. So it's very international. And before we went out last night, we gave a talk to the lair of Vancouver. Cheers to Brian for organizing that and the guys that came down. I'm surprised in how many guys came actually. There were a lot of daygamers. We saw during training, we saw four, five, six guys on the street, but we had twenty, thirty guys, I think, at that talk. So if you're in Vancouver, no excuse. There's huge pavements. Granville's awesome. Beautiful. Yeah. We'll be back. Beautiful. Beautiful. Right. Craig and I are almost ready to fly, and then I won't see mister Hassle. Cassidy for a while. Yeah. Anyway, sorry. We were just called. The hustle was still going ahead, but slightly changed seats because of a baby. Anyway, I'm not gonna see mister Cassidy for a while because I'm going to Central Europe. You're in London coaching and faffing around the West Country. So the next time we do some training will be on a tour. I think we're planning like an autumn tour through Europe or the daygame hotspots of Europe to teach street hustle immersion. One day, two day, we haven't decided yet but we will be calling at places like Cologne, Munich, Vienna, Prague, Krakow, maybe Vilnius, maybe Riga, maybe Tallinn, all the classics. Hot girls, good vibes, cheap beer, cheap accommodation. So rather than you perhaps having training in London, come and join the fun. We're hoping to ride motorbikes through Europe. Cassidy's already got his proper license. I'm on my shitty 125. I'll be riding a little scooter. Dumb and dumb Vespa. Yeah. I'll be riding a pink Vespa. No. I'll try and get the the real deal, and then we can hire some bikes, do it properly. That's is good. Wear some lederhosen. Craig will be munching on some sausages. The vibe will be good. So we'll we'll advertise that. And also, because we had such a fucking laugh here on the West Coast Of Canada, we're gonna do the West Coast Of America for some winter sun in we're thinking early December. Destinations I've done before, I know them well. Los Angeles, Las Vegas baby, just like swingers, maybe San Diego as well. Lots of demand. Guys will often ask about Los Angeles. So when I get back to The UK or wherever with some good WiFi, I will get the date sorted, put it out there, see where the interest is, and then we'll make a final schedule. So maybe underneath this, if you're listening on YouTube and you're thinking we've missed out your city, you're on the West Coast Of America or you're in Central Europe somewhere, add it in. You could even email me provisionally if you're super excited. If you're like that kid at school that wants to submit his project early, if you wanna be teacher's pet, email me, get a place before we've even advertised it, tom@tomtorero.com. Last thoughts mister Cassidy on road trips on you going from a normal life to being a delinquent? Yeah it's been bloody good. Your name is from?

**Speaker 2:** Butch Cassidy. Butch Cassidy. A bit of an outlaw. That's what I'm trying to be now. Yeah. It's been awesome. Ten days of beers, bears, boobs, and van Filth. Threesome filth. The stuff I've the stuff I've never wanted. Yeah. I wanna unsee it. My mother will be ashamed. But now it's been awesome and I can't wait for the next adventure. So yeah, join us like Tom says in Europe, in America, and I'll see you guys again soon.

**Speaker 0:** Alright, boys. We've got to get on the plane quite literally. Are we on, Craig? Are we on? Smile at this lady. Thank

**Speaker 1:** you. Alright, boys. We'll see you next time. Bye.

**Speaker 0:** Sorry. Can I say something cheeky? Yes. Just really quickly. I love your It's the glasses or the blue hat? Purple. Sorry. Purple Rain? Yeah. Are you listening to Prince? No, no. Or Justin Yeah. Oh no, not Justin Bieber. You said yes, you said yes. I like Justin Bieber now, he's cool. Yeah, know. I'm British, you are I'm from Kazakhstan. Kazakhstan? Almaty? Yeah. How did you know? I was in Almaty last September. Oh. Almaty. Who was there? Drugs. No. Went to Big Bear Lake. Yeah. And I went to this shitty like fairgrounds with some rides, you know, about the cities? Yeah. And I had borscht and I had That's Crazy people. Yeah. Fun. Very fun. I liked it. You're Kazakh. You speak Russian I do and now you live in Vancouver what the fuck what a difference I know Vancouver, Amati but I'm very happy that you moved here I'm sure I wanted to kill myself Kazakhstan. It was it was beautiful

**Speaker 1:** but crazy. Nice

**Speaker 0:** girl. You are proper badass. Like it. In Kazakhstan people were very sensible, a bit serious. Very conservative. Yeah. You are not conservative. No. I'm glad that my parents are not that conservative. They're not conservative. Well, they're somewhere in the middle, you know. Yeah. Yeah. Let's have a coffee. Okay. Even though it's terrible. Let's go and have a beer. And you can tell your friends where you are. I promise I will get you a taxi home. I promise you can check him. Okay. If you promise. I promise. I'm an Englishman. And an Englishman is you can trust him like the queen. Or James man. Hey, man. How you doing? Main Street, please. Main Street. I'll I'll tell you now. Hang on. Are you gonna get any more tattoos? Yeah. I want to. Yeah. But I'm still thinking what I want to get. T o m. And a and a and a big heart. Yeah. That's nice. And I'll get I'll get your name. Yeah. Like, on my fingers here. Is your friend waiting up for you? And you're gonna say, listen. I was buying a coffee. An English guy came up to me. We we went for a hipster beer. I seduced him. Mhmm. I jumped on him. This is the awkward moment where I say to you, I'm gonna add you on Facebook.

**Speaker 1:** Okay. And somehow I'm gonna stay in touch.