--- title: Episode 80 White Knights vs Dark Knights episode_number: 80 era: mid source_file: Episode 80 White Knights vs Dark Knights.mp3 audio_size_mb: 56.7 duration_sec: 1859.0 duration_min: 31.0 language: en provider: deepgram model: nova-3 diarized: true confidence: 0.998 transcribed_at: 2026-05-28T07:20:30Z--- # Episode 80 White Knights vs Dark Knights **Speaker 0:** I can be your hero, baby. I can kiss away the pain. **Speaker 1:** Tom Torero podcast 80. What uplifting, inspiring white night music that was as it's here in my eye as we kick off today's podcast from The UK on white nights versus dark nights, magical music. Forgive the delay in getting this out and forgive the lack of content, you could say in the last few days. I've been on the road. It's been manic for about two, three weeks solid. I've been in Canada. I was in Toronto, then I was in Poland, then I was on the Euro tour with Craig, and then briefly back to Poland, and then to London, and now to Cardiff. So this is the first day I've really been able to sit down. There's some normality. I'm gonna rest and recuperate here. My family laugh when I say rest and recuperate or recover. When I say, god, I need the holiday after all this, traveling. I get the irony in it. I'm not complaining. It's it's a privileged thing to do, but it does mess with your mind, not just the jet lag and, the flying and the changes in accommodation just in constantly moving. And this year, I've had a better balance because I've been in most places for two, three, four weeks, if not longer. But that last Euro tour thing, that was mental. That was just go. Go. Go. So, anyway, I'm here for a bit, then I'm in Central Europe again for a bit working on editing of Stealth Seduction and finishing off Cold Calling. And then the last couple of weeks of November, I'm in Japan with Timothy. If you listen to the Kiev podcast, that was Timothy. And then the first bit of December, I'm West Coast Sting in, The US Of A. I'm gonna be in Las Vegas finishing the year with Craig Cassidy. Once again, what a mental year. It's been a fantastic year, and, cheers for supporting the black sheep tour. That is pretty much over now. All the the meetups that I've done across the world and, supporting Street Hustle. The launch of that was early this year. Supporting, other live events, coming to training, buying my stuff. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. It's it's made it win win. So I'm quite happy to put out content. I love putting out content, because guys support what I do, and they make this lifestyle possible. So win win in all senses, which is really the opposite of today's topic, which is on, white nights versus dark nights. You might remember I did a white night podcast, or it was called, I think, the white night rant, podcast 24 that was, last summer. And I explained what white nights were and why white nights white night as a sexual strategy, and what to do if you are a bit of a white knight and how it's different from the nice guy and why the pickup industry sometimes hides behind the white knight thing. So listen to podcast 24 if you want lots of white knight definitions and information. But today, I'm linking it to, some haters, some trolls. We do like trolls. I'm not gonna say his name, but my most hardcore hater, and I've had him for about half a year now, is a guy we shall call Eric. That's a nice name. Eric Luttrell. Sounds quite Scandinavian, but he's not Scandinavian. And he sends me almost daily emails, sometimes two, three, four a day. I enjoy them. I smile. I show them to my friends and my wings and my family, and we have a good laugh. Maybe, you know, it'll be like John Leonard. One day he'll be standing outside more my door, and he'll shoot me in the back of the head, and then it won't be so funny. But, I I kind of like Eric in a way. I've grown to enjoy and wait for his emails every day. And I do genuinely feel bad for this guy because he's obviously very angry and frustrated, and, needs some feminine energy in his life, needs some affection in his life, needs a girlfriend, or needs to get laid. Something bad has happened to him, I guess. He's had a very negative experience of pickup. So he's, certainly the hardest case white knight I have, ever come across. So I'm gonna read out bits and pieces of his emails, Eric Luttrell's emails, and that will give you a good glimpse into a white knight's mindset, and why it's, yeah, amusing, but it's also alarming if a lot of men across the world think like this, and why obviously it's pussy repellent. So the emails kick off from Eric in, the middle of August, and he's really angry. He says, I'm gonna expose you, Tom, for who you are because you just use women for sex. You mess with guys' girlfriends or husbands. Now I'm gonna make sure your life is a living hell. And trust me, any girls you know or are in contact with, I know your intention, and you can't get away from me. The same day he writes, you are a messed up person and you are messing with women's lives. If I ever meet you, I will beat the holy living hell out of you because the unethical and immoral behaviors for these injustices. His English is slightly strange, but I get what he means. He's angry that I'm mistreating women in his eyes. The the day after because I don't reply, obviously, non reactivity. But I wasn't deleting them because I felt, okay. These are a case study in, what not to do, obviously, and why not behavior. The next day, says, you're trying to avoid me, but trust me. I will be coming for you one way or another to give you a taste of your own medicine. Alright. On the same day, he replies, to himself, trying to still avoid me. I will come at you full force throttle. I like that sentence. I will come at you full force throttle. The more you avoid, I will keep pushing it. The next day, he says, you better be prepared because I'm coming at you full acceleration. He obviously likes motoring, Eric. Does Not pumping the brakes when it comes to you, Tom. You spelled as in the letter. Uh-oh. So Eric is mad. Now the next day, he wakes up and sends me this. Didn't I tell you to stop being a messed up person? I'm trying not to use foul language. Well well done, Eric. Your parents have taught you well. But I warned you, if you keep this up, I'm not gonna be sorry if I find you to beat living crap out of the holy hell. There's no full stop to this. Living near death out of it also you just motivated me to find you. And let's just say, we will see what happens. The same day, poor Eric writes, I have a vendetta against you. And then a few days went past of silence, I wondered what had happened to Eric until he wrote a week later, he said, you didn't stop mistreating these women. You are a dead man when I find you. Then he starts sending me my own pictures from Instagram back to me. Now remember, my Instagram's public, and I'm happy for everybody to see those photos and share them. But he sends them back to me and says he will spread these pictures if I stop if I don't stop treating women like this. We skip ahead to the next month. He sent me many in between then. He says, as a white knight, you better stop lying to these women and tell them who you really are, or else I'm gonna do that for you. These women will see the real you, not the one you are pretending to be. A few days later, he says it's quite sad to see these women falling for your bullshit, not knowing there are other women. She doesn't know it's just not just her messing with her feelings. You are a sleazeball. Tom, you are finished, he says the next day. Mark my words, my friend. You don't want me to ever get hold of you because if I ever do, it will be the last of you, capital letters. You can guarantee that. Okay. He keeps going on. I'm skipping through these because you get the idea now. They're pretty much daily for the month to come. Stop being dishonest with women. Tell them the truth. You are a coward. You are sleazy. You are wrong. Okay. We get into October. I would also be more positive to you if you weren't lying to these women. Lying, being deceptive, mistreating them, being double faced, being a douchebag. Start being honest. And he goes on and he goes on he goes on. What was the last message? He just says, I'm gonna keep sending you emails plus spam with your own Instagram photos like this one, and then he resends me a photo that I've just uploaded to Instagram publicly. Anyway, that was just a couple of days ago. So Eric, the troll, has been on my case for a while, his beef is obviously that he thinks that I'm mistreating women, that, women need saving, that I need to grow up, that I need to honest with these women because they would definitely not understand it or like it or accept it if they knew that I was a player, not a boyfriend. He wants me to do the right thing. He wants me to man up. He feels like he needs to protect women. So if you've listened to podcast 24, the rant on white knights, or you know the internet definition of a white knight, you'll see that this is classic white knight behavior. Yep. A man who wants to save women. Now as I say in that podcast, 24, either it's because men are naive, and Eric might be, naive. He might lack, experience with girls where he knows that girls really don't need saving. They don't want saving. They don't like white knights. They're quite happy to sleep with men who have other women in their lives. Actually, counterintuitively, that makes them more attractive. Women love the old jealousy plotline thing. Women can very easily be in open relationships, in polyamorous, polygamous relationships, all this stuff. Maybe Eric doesn't know that or he does know that goes on, and then you get into the darker form of the, white knight where the guy's pretending to save women for sexual reward. It's a sexual strategy. It's like, I will save you on my horse with my shield and my sword only if you sleep with me. I'm not one of the bad guys. So, that's why I put that song at the beginning of the podcast here. I can be your hero, baby. I can kiss away the pain. I can be your hero. And in return, I just want you to have sex with me. So we get this we get this a lot with Internet comments. So if you read comments on pickup videos or pickup channels, pickup blogs, pickup articles, anything where the guy's telling lay reports or lay stories, you can see it on, like, a Dan Bilzerian Instagram account comment feed. Guys are saying they are shocked. They are offended by this behavior. You know, they are signaling how virtuous they are, how righteous they are. I would never treat a woman like this. This is terrible. Come on my horse, dear lady. Come on my horse, special snowflake angel maiden, and I will ride off into the sunset and try and fuck you. You get it when when I've written articles, the black sheep series of articles that are on my website. Most of the comments about that were, things like, Tommy should man up, Tommy should settle down, Tommy should stop being so selfish. When are you gonna stop all this selfish, meaningless, boring travel? I mean, this is just ridiculous. You should settle down like me and have a fiance, have a wife, have a house, have kids, have a normal job in a home depot store. I mean, what are you doing? This is ridiculous. You're just a child. This is all, again, virtue signaling, PC shaming. Yeah? The man who wants to just provide, the man who wants to protect. It's always very passive aggressive. Although I have to say with Eric Patrol, at least he's quite vocal. I like his vocal aggression. He's channeling his aggression into emails. Whether one day he is gonna come up to me with a Smith and Weston, who knows? But, for now, it's just, kind of trolling. It's words. It's not action. So you could say it's passive aggressive, like comments online, like on forums. That's why I say steer clear of things like the manosphere, where angry men enjoy being angry and ranting. It's just a downward spiral, a self fulfilling prophecy. Those men don't wanna be helped. They enjoy being grumpy. They enjoy being angry, and they enjoy not going outside and talking to girls, just having a go at girls. I think my very first podcast, Make Love Not War, was about this very thing where I love women. I don't worship them. I don't put them on a pedestal, but I love the feminine energy that complements the masculine energy. I love having sex with them. I find them fun and funny and soft, and they smell nice, and they're nice to kiss, and they're nice to sleep with, and they're nice to, cooch up to, as we say in Wales, for a few days. Oh, love it. That's why I'm into pickup. I've dedicated my my adult life to this thing. So, no. Make love not war. Or you could say as a biologist, make love like war. All is fair in love and war. It's a game, but it's a dance. I say, yep. Listen to podcast number one on that, or listen to podcast 24 where I have a good old rant against these white knights. These are the kind of guys I'm sure Eric Latro leaves likes on Gil's Facebook or Instagram posts and photos and sends her hearts on social media and comments underneath her photos. Wow, baby. You look so hot. And she replies, oh, thanks. That's so sweet. Yep. Sometimes these guys, maybe Eric is religious. Right? Religious ways definitely encourage this kind of mock indignation, the PC police, the the righteousness, the judgment, which is quite ironic, really. Whereas in the Bible, you know, it says, don't throw stones if you live in a glass house, or what is the phrase? Let he who is without sin cast the first stone. So, it's very easy online to present yourself as this, perfect human being who can judge everybody else. When you forget the line between good and evil runs through us all, we have good and evil inside us. That is the definition of being human, and that's what makes it all juicy, that's why I love the human condition. I've just put on my, website this week, tomtorero.com, a list of 10 documentaries. I watch more documentaries than, fictional films because I love the human condition, And those documentaries are about flow states and peak performance and eccentric people that dedicate their lives to one thing and, the sacrifices they make and the glory and the pain and the, the oddness of it all. That's the human condition, the struggle between good and evil, however you define that, alright, in a completely nonreligious way. But as I said, white knights of the second kind, the kind that are manipulative and doing it as a sexual strategy, they're often playing the virtue card. Right? They're often patronizing. They're often what do they call it online? Concern trolling. Yep. So pretending to be like the local vicar, but really trying to put the knife in. Whereas at least Eric Lutro is very vocal about how and where he wants to put the knife in. Sometimes these guys, maybe Eric's like this, they pretend to be asexual. So they say, you know, I'm not not interested in women. Either hiding their dick, they friend zone themselves as a sneaky strategy to get in the social circle, and then they wait until they pounce. Sometimes when their female friends are drunk or whatever, they hide in the friend zone. Again, it's a sexual sexual strategy. Alright? They might present themselves as very feminine. This goes on a lot now. They might say things like, and and Eric said this in a few emails, that pickup only works on trashy girls. Right? It only works on whores. Only cheap stupid women would fall for your manipulative tricks. This would never work on classy girls that I wanna date and marry. So there's definitely the Madonna whore complex thing going on a lot of the time, and that's linked to the purity fantasy. Yeah? That's why they see girls as snowflakes, as angels, as maidens, on pedestals. I said somewhere, I nicked off someone else, the only time you should put a girl on a pedestal is to be able to look up her skirt. So to sum up, white knights, as I said in podcast 24, they are in the woman's frame. To simplify all this thing, a white knight or the nice guy, doesn't have the frame. He's in the woman's frame. Whereas the player, the bad boy, the alpha guy, he holds the frame, and the woman is inside his frame where she wants to be. She enjoys it. So alpha is you're holding the frame. Beta is she's holding the frame. And this comes down to being a sheep. As I've said all this year on tour, the white knight or the nice kind, the typical beta guy, he is the white sheep. He's inside the frame, which in farming is the pen. Yeah? He's happy sometimes to be herded in there. He's happy to be the victim. He's happy to be like everybody else. He's happy to be trapped even though the gate's open. As I say in every black sheep talk I give, the gate is open. You can walk out right now. I can give you permission if you want today listening to this podcast. Go on. The prison door is open. Just walk out. But you know what? Many guys don't want to. They take comfort in misery. They take comfort in complaining. They take comfort being the victim. That's why they're on forums. That's why they group together. They they have all the tools and strategies to be able to change, but they don't want to. So you can show somebody the door they have to walk through it. You can take a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. So they're the white sheep, and that is the white knight, versus us, hopefully you listening to this podcast and the message of my tour this year around the world, being the black sheep, I. E. Holding the frame, walking out of that pen so you're no longer in the girl's frame, your angry parents' frame, your angry brother's frame, your domineering boss' frame, the world's frame, somebody who's trying to troll you's frame. You're outside of it. You're holding the frame because as I say at the end of every talk, you're not even the black sheep. You're actually the wolf in sheep's clothing because you show them the claws. Alright? Or you're the sheep dog. You're the person who's leading. You're the person who's the boss. You're holding the frame. And people, thank you for it. Women, thank you for it. As I say in podcast 24, women don't want to be saved. Women don't need to be saved. Alright? The liberating thing about this when you walk out of the pen is you realize you don't need to rescue women. All that energy you're expending on the friend zone or even worse, the white knighting, they don't want you to rescue them. They're a lot stronger than you take them for. They're a lot cleverer than you take them for. Alright? Who you need to rescue is yourself. You need to have enough power, enough courage to walk out of that pen, go your own way, not turning your back on women, but relying, on yourself, self reliance. Okay? It's very liberating. You're the black sheep, and you show your claws. You're the the wolf in sheep sheep's clothing. So I've said all that this year. Now let's come on to the second part of it because, that took a lot of time. Dark nights. Now I've done a post on my blog, which I shall link below if you're watching on YouTube or listening on iTunes. It was called heart of darkness, I think, about, being a dark knight, about dark triad traits. Because what is so shocking to a white knight, and Eric seems to be very distraught about this, is that when you get into game, the truth hurts. And last week, I talked with Craig about that anger of swallowing the red pill, quote unquote. You discover all this stuff. It's a bit like when you, read on evolution for the first time or you read the selfish gene. I remember reading a book called Darwin's dangerous idea by the great Daniel Dennett, and it really made me angry, cross, and depressed and nihilistic. You know? You think, well, god is dead. This is, the reason humans are, alive and the reasons humans evolved. This is how they evolved and why. And you think, well, fuck all this. This is terrible. As I say in my first book, daygame, at university, I I was properly clinically depressed, I made an appointment to see, one of the university professors who was a lecturer, the famous evolutionary biologist, the successor you could say to Darwin, Richard Dawkins, professor Dawkins. And very kindly he agreed to see me, and I went to his house in North Oxford. I sat on the sofa, I had a list of things I wanted to say to him, and I basically vented my anger and my frustration. I was properly nerdy and you could say white knighty about the world. And he took it. He listened. And then very kindly, explained why, this is liberating as I'm telling you now because, you can define your own meaning. You're totally free. You're not constrained in the pen by people telling you what to do and making you feel guilty. And he explained, the beauty, the simplicity of this theory and how the world is so beautiful and we're alive and we should celebrate it, blah blah blah. And at the time, as I say in my first book, daygame, I wasn't really listening. I didn't want to listen. I I was full on angry. It was real swallowing the red pill. I didn't know it back then because, I hadn't applied it to girls. But just this shift in mindset from a Methodist Christian upbringing to this was, was depressing. And when I read, as I said, Darwin's dangerous idea, which explains how, this one idea pervades everything, psychology, sociology, and the impact of DNA and and memes, it it shattered my world. But now when I look back on all of this, a bit like looking back on when I was a nice guy or you could say a bit of a white knight maybe, I see that now I'm liberated. Now I'm free. Now I'm out of it. Now I have the power because I'm not a victim. I'm taking control. I can change myself. Therefore, I can change my circumstances. Alright? And I'm no longer depressed, touch wood. The black dog, as Churchill said, comes and goes, and I recognize it, and I know how to to deal with it. But game has been my, my salvation. Yeah? Chasing women as the carrot on the stick, as I've said, has been my biggest self improvement. Now don't get this as me talking about self improvement by reading books or going to seminars. I'm saying that by going out there onto the streets and traveling and getting rejected and having success and talking to guys and quitting my job and etcetera etcetera has obviously massively transformed my life, and I'm utterly grateful for it. So let's get back to this idea of the dark night because you read up on God is dead, evolutionary biology, or you read up on how and, why men and women are attracted to each other and how dating and mating works and, all of this red pill stuff. And you realize that those dark triad traits that, we know dark knights to be, if you think of Macbeth or you think of Batman or you think of Heathcliff, etcetera, those brooding dark characters, they have those dark triad traits of narcissism. I say this in the, article, Heart of Darkness. Narcissism, Machiavellianism, I think that's how we say it, sneakiness, and, psychopathy, so madness. And elevated levels of those traits as we see in Scarface or we see in American Psycho are massively attractive to women. And this is hard to take. Right? It's hard to take if you're that nice, sensible guy who has an office job and who goes to the gym and wears a tie when you find out that those shifty, shady characters, the bad boys at school, are massively attractive to girls. You know, the alpha is just the guy who women find sexually attractive, and those dropouts often those jocks, they are massively attractive to girls with raised levels of, the dark triad traits. And when you find this out, you get really, really angry. It really upsets the white knight. Maybe that's why Eric's so upset because his strategy is not working, and he sees, dropouts, guys peddling drugs on street corners, maybe in his city being very successful with girls, and that makes you mad because everything that society told you and your parents told you and school taught you and university taught you, unless you studied evolutionary biology, says the opposite. So it makes men mad. So you go through that phase of anger and bitterness. And I talk about in the article how to understand dark triad, how to swing that way if you're the nice guy, how to stare into the darkness like, in Joseph Conrad, how to go up that river, but not to be consumed by it. So to understand evolutionary biology, to understand genetics, but not to be consumed by despair and nihilism. It's really, really, really, really important. Otherwise, it generates what I talked about in the last podcast, which is just anger and depression. Because you think, fuck this. This is all terrible. I need to become this utterly horrible human being. God, this is this is fucked up. When when in truth, you're taking things too black and white. Right? So you don't need to go all that way. You need to go enough down that route until you become successful with girls. I've gone down that route and become as much of a bad boy as I need to be. Maybe I could be a little bit more with girls in terms of, you know, escalation and fast pulls and all that, but I'm happy with where I am. But I haven't completely given up on the old Tom who, who cares about friends or who cares about life or who cares about family or who cares about, just being polite to people. I think men mistake it as, right, you gotta throw all that away, baby out with the bathwater, you know, and just become utterly, miserable and hideous. When this is just a strategy, remember, the the the traits, those dark triad traits get you laid, so use what, you need to use. Sure. Cure yourself with the nice guy thing. Definitely cure yourself of the white knight thing, through taking action, not through reading. And then, readdress the balance. So for the last two, three years, I've been enjoying readdressing the balance. And, you can be, as I said in that video series a long time ago, the nice bad boy. But if you are the nice guy, this is the disclaimer for the podcast, which I've said before. For a while, and this would apply to Eric if I met him, for a while, you have to swing the other way. So you have to get into, fast escalation. You have to get into teasing and challenging and breaking rapport. You have to get into being cocky and arrogant and, increasing your ego, your sense of entitlement. Yeah? Your, audacity. You need to be this larger than life character for a while, and that's why pickup is training wheels and scaffolding because it provides you with this movie role if you like. You suddenly become the director a la fight club of your life. You write the script. You play the character. You say, okay. Fuck it. I am this super seducer. And there's a arrogance. There's there's fronting in the beginning. Until you, get where you wanna be, you achieve that success, and then you readdress the balance. You become a lot more realistic. You remember that, sleeping with women is an awesome part of life. I absolutely love it. It's my passion. But, the passions exist, like walking in a forest, sailing on the ocean, swimming in a river, looking up at the stars, going for a bike ride, having another hobby. Right? The world is beautiful. And sure, genetic replication is at the heart of why we're here biologically, but we have this awesome potential as Richard Dawkins explains even in the selfish gene, and people forget this, that we are the first species to be able to stop and, a, look back to how we got to be where we are now, which is fucking mind blowing, right, for a species to be able to work out how we came into existence. But, b, to to flick the finger up at replicating and say, fuck it. I'm just gonna go and sit in a forest today. You know, I don't need to worry about somebody eating me or maybe Eric coming up behind me. Eric Lutwell. I don't need to worry about foraging for food. I got laid yesterday or whatever. You might have a girlfriend or, you know, I've got these harem of women, whatever. So today, I'm just gonna go sailing. This has no evolutionary advantage unless you're using it as ecosystem competitive game. But you say, I just enjoy sailing or I just enjoy looking at the stars or I've just watched this awesome documentary a couple of weeks ago, the last man on the moon, about the story of the last man on the moon and his life and, his two lunar missions and him being the last guy to step foot on the moon. And him as an old man now reflecting on this awesome badass life. So things like that. That's why I love physics, and I love mathematics because you say you because you could say it's much more mystical and, mind blowing than biology, than chemistry, because we're not talking about religion here. And when I say mysticism, just the, the massive unknown, which is, I find liberating and way more comforting than a wizard in the sky. We shall finish it there. That was quite a positive thing, I hope, because I'm not, as I said in podcast 24, I'm not just having a go at white nights. I'm not ranting at them per se. It's just a kick at the ass to recognize, are you being a white knight? Are you being a nice guy? And why you should, explore the dark knights, should certainly get into pickup for that, and then how you can readdress the balance. That was podcast 80. The next one will be from who knows where? Hopefully, The United Kingdom where I shall be sitting having another cup of tea. Until next week. **Speaker 0:** And never look back? Would you cry if you saw me crying?